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Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1918

At the suggestion of Hack I thought we might try some Bill Analysis.

There is lots to consider such as Venue , Wrestlers , Alias's, Who may have Traveled Together , The Price of Admission , Who promoted the show , Anything out of the ordinary , Mismatches , Great Matches and anything else unusual or otherwise.

If the response is reasonable then I can certainly find the Bills.

Below , what a strange venue , big place I think with a Concert Hall ? Kendo not with Joint ? Know anything about Dick Flanagan or his opponent.....and who would have promoted this show.


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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 20, 2018 at 2:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

frank thomas
Member
Posts: 1536
Norman Cooper Syd perhaps? Pete Ross wrestled as "Farmers Boy' Remember Harry Palin well, came from Widnes, father of another wrestler, Dave Duran. Possibly one part of the 'graduates' was Roger Green, who wrestled for Brian Dixon wearing a mortar board and gown in the 70s as "the graduate" and actually saw Steve Young V Kendo Nagasaki at Ellesmere Port in the 1970s, Steve as we know "morphed" into Skull Murphy. As for the promoter? I would hazard a guess at Brian Dixon's " Wrestling Enterprises Of Birkenhead'. Who were running shows around this time..
January 20, 2018 at 3:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
Member
Posts: 1397
It would have probably been a ballroom rather that a concert hall attached, Dennis Lord used a hotel in Tynemouth with the same set up
January 20, 2018 at 4:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

frank thomas
Member
Posts: 1536
The date ties in with the time that kendo "jumped ship" to Brian Dixon's "Wrestling Enterprises" I saw him a few times at Grange Road Sports Centre in Birkenhead, against Rikki Starr, Albert Wall, and partnering Giant Haystacks against Rikki Starr and Jim Moser in tag. As well as mentioned above, against Steve Young at Ellesmere Port.
January 20, 2018 at 4:50 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
Moderator
Posts: 2632

I think it unlikely that Norman Cooper was Syd. We have another Norman Cooper in the A-Z. A North East lad who worked a lot with other North East lads like Pete Ross, and Jim McCrombie. Another one was Dick Lanagan, who I would guess is Dick Flanagan here. Dick Lanagan is in the A-Z as Seamus Lanagan, another name he used.

Who were the Graduates?

Note also this is a Sunday show.

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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

January 20, 2018 at 5:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

frank thomas
Member
Posts: 1536

Hack at January 20, 2018 at 5:58 PM

I think it unlikely that Norman Cooper was Syd. We have another Norman Cooper in the A-Z. A North East lad who worked a lot with other North East lads like Pete Ross, and Jim McCrombie. Another one was Dick Lanagan, who I would guess is Dick Flanagan here. Dick Lanagan is in the A-Z as Seamus Lanagan, another name he used.

Who were the Graduates?

Note also this is a Sunday show.

Think possibly one of the graduates was Roger Green, as I stated earlier, Hack, remember him working as the "Graduate" in mid 1970s for Brian Dixon, complete with gown & mortar board, but only working solo.. Should have realised it wasn't Syd, as at the time he was very much a mainstay with joint throughout his career and whoever promoted this, was plainly an independent.. But still think it was a Dixon promotion, as he used Pedro The Gypsy & Harry Palin regularly..
January 20, 2018 at 6:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mad Mac
Member
Posts: 317

Normandy Hotel used to hold regular events of all kinds, had a decent sized hall. Peter Keenan promoted around the Glasgow area, maybe this was one of his shows?

January 20, 2018 at 7:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1918

One shot of the interior of the place shows some plush chairs and a stage but it may have had other function halls.

The price £1.25 was most expensive at the time. Top price for a seat at Belle Vue was 60p going down to 40p

Frank may be right about Dixon promoting as this is an example of his advertising at that very time. However with a five match bill you would have thought that he might have used the woman wrestlers as well.



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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 20, 2018 at 10:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mad Mac
Member
Posts: 317

Ron Historyo at January 20, 2018 at 10:28 PM

One shot of the interior of the place shows some plush chairs and a stage but it may have had other function halls.

The price £1.25 was most expensive at the time. Top price for a seat at Belle Vue was 60p going down to 40p

Frank may be right about Dixon promoting as this is an example of his advertising at that very time. However with a five match bill you would have thought that he might have used the woman wrestlers as well.



The Scottish local authorities (in this instance, Burgh of Renfrew) tended to frown upon womens' wrestling, especially in those days. 

January 21, 2018 at 1:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 2101

Your experiment worked, Ron!


The bill you chose works in perfectly with the Year of Wrestling 1975 which we called WINDS OF CHANGE FOR VETERAN BILL TOPPERS.  Kellett had been mnonlighting in 1974 and even Alan Garfield signed of his career in Scotland.  I would imagine there will be lots of fascinating 1974 and 1975 bills from Scotland.  Didn't Masambula continue wrestling in Scotland after being paralysed?


Pedro the Gypsy is intriguing as he pops up on so very many of these type of bills.


Anyway, it certainly looks like there was some element of "hiding form Joint Promotions" in far flung Scotland by a number of these wrestlers.


And then to overturn the theory, Skull Murphy pops up soon afterwards on Dale Martin bills.


As usual, no logic.  Or no apparent logic.

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Still trying to work out what was going on!

January 21, 2018 at 3:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
Moderator
Posts: 2632

Roger Green is a possibility but could be anyone; the independents weren't averse to putting an appealing name on the bill and solving the problem of who to fill the bill later. I don't see any hiding from Joint as the Joint regulars on this show were all working openly for the independents at this time.

Nagasaki stands out on a pretty lacklustre bill. He was working for the independents by now, and did have quite a few matches with Steve Young around this time, often for Brian Dixon as Frank comments. Still doesn't mean this was the genuine article.

Does this look like a Dixon advert? Genuine question. My impression was that Dixon adverts were usually more descriptive than this.

We've never considered the question of Kendo Nagasaki promoting, have we?

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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

January 21, 2018 at 3:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

frank thomas
Member
Posts: 1536
Discussing this earlier via internet with a friend, we were discussing the Kendo Nagasaki V Steve Young show I saw at Ellesmere Port, my mate Paul recalls that this was an Orig Williams promotion, not Brian Dixon, so Mr Williams name could go into the "hat" for this one?
January 21, 2018 at 9:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1918

It would be a shame to not sort the promotion out on this one , but looks like we need a wrestler to help. I am stumped and have checked the Evening Times that the bill came from but cannot shed any light. Some really valid comments.

Lets have some more ideas and don't be shy. 

When we get towards the bottom of Forum page one I will throw another one in.

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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 21, 2018 at 10:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1918

Just been looking through my Glasgow bills and notice that Peter Keenan always had access to Joint Wrestlers I should imagine through agreement with Relwyskow.

But also I found in the 1970's a Dick Neeson promoting also at Kelvin Hall with Indy wrestlers such as Pedro , Steve Young , Bobby Barron, Danny Lynch , Outlaw and Cassidy

Not only that I found a bill at the Cinema on St Georges Road in 1977 with a promoter Colin Brown. He was using the likes of The Borg Twins , Pallo Jr , and moreover Sexy Suzy Parkins and Mask Molly Malone.

There is a lot we don't know. (Help....... Dale Storm)

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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 21, 2018 at 10:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 2101

Lacklustre bill, Hack?  Five bouts including the Borg Twins in tag.  Looks pretty hot to me.  Pedro was always value and let's give the benefit of doubt to the unknowns.


I agree anyone could be under the bonnet but The Borg Twins couldn't really be frauds could they ☺☺☺


The promoters would have put the real ones top of the bill if the Nagasaki were a fraud, in my opinion.


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Still trying to work out what was going on!

January 21, 2018 at 2:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
Moderator
Posts: 2632

I've no doubt in the quality of the unknowns Anglo Italian, but am pleased to see you defending the honour of the opposition wrestlers; at least you've learnt something from me over the years. 

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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

January 21, 2018 at 3:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dave Sutherland
Member
Posts: 366

When he started out in the early sixties Syd Cooper was known as Norman especialy in the North. However mid - way through the decade he was pretty well nationally known as Syd.

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January 21, 2018 at 3:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
Moderator
Posts: 2632

That's right Dave, but I doubt if this was Syd.

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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

January 21, 2018 at 4:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1918

Without ending the discussion on this Normandy Hotel venue I did as Anglo suggested and looked round Scotland again in 1974 and found another hotel not that far away on the south tip of Loch Lomond. Again it is Kendo Nagasaki , again it is pricey but with supper thrown in , again it is Sunday night. This time the girls are also on including Mitzi but I still get the feeling that this is not Brian Dixon.

There is an MO here but can we even be sure that we have one and the same promoter. I think so.


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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 21, 2018 at 4:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
Member
Posts: 2432

I know nothing about this, but George Kidd did some promoting in Scotland.Is that a possible?

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January 21, 2018 at 5:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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