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Anglo Italian
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Posts: 906

We wrote the Shining Star tribute "The Turbulent Trailblazer" based in some large part on a forum topic from 2004.  Actually, it was the first topic I ever started on a wrestling forum, I believe.


I have just come across where I had saved the topic in its entirety in my computer and have just re-read it.  It makes for fascinating reading and is distinguished by quality contributions of all kinds from fans who still contribute here (Palais Fan pushes for the "Sir" Alan title, and we are lucky still to have his regular input) but, unfortunately, also from many who seem lost to us in cyberspace.  Rather like we rattle off big name wrestlers, these were the big name forum posters of 2004 and 2005:  Saxonwolf, Bearhug, Grizzled Veteran, Old David, KNN1F, Woodlow and several others.


Neil Sands also makes a telling contribution.


There are many highlights, including the arrival of Alan Garfield's nephew to the discussion, and his emotional description of Sir Alan's sad death.  Also revealed pretty clearly is why Alan Garfield was removed from tv wrestling.


Obviously, in 2004 we were wondering about things that have since become very clear, but it seems quite right to copy comments in their original form.


But there are many other aspects unrelated to Alan Garfield:  Steve Logan a sausage lover!;  Hack's enlightening explanation about the key Dale Martin venues;  and many other wrestlers from Adrian Street to Haystacks Calhoun.  Even the first usage of the word Wrestling Heritage which I will highlight in red.


I know Bernard for one has an interest in old topics, so this one's for you.  Why not start with the best!  I was going to edit it down, but frankly, all contributions were so good that there is no point.


It is great to see through 152 contributions how we pieced together a fullsome profile of an initially mysterious man.


It's a big ask, but maybe we could even now take this further and get the Argentinian train driver's wife to get involved from afar.


I will just grapple with the technicalities and hope soon to bring you this mammoth piece.  It'll be a bit of a job.


This work was lost and is found.  As long as Hack and I are running this site, such wonderful contributions are guaranteed to remain safe from the passing whims of webmasters who pack in after a couple of years, and, like this, we will endeavour to bring all information to the free attention of Wrestling Heritage Members.

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 5:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Done it!  It was quite tricky as the formatting of all the images and articles was unfortunately lost in transfer.  Set aside 60 free minutes and grab a glass of your favourite tipple for a great journey of discovery.  Here we go....


Anglo Italian  July 28, 2004 at 3:09 pm

The discussion recently strayed to the great and much under-reported Alan Garfield, working model for many of the sixties and subsequent bad men.

I have now found the  August 1972 article in The Wrestler magazine.

The article in classic style says much and nothing. Nationality, weight, titles – all are left untouched.

But the praise is glowing and entirely justified. And remeber that this was written in the absolute heyday of British Wrestling: the Hells Angels adorn the cover, Robin, Portz, Arras, Klondyke Bill, Kirk, Tony St Clair are all featured inside.

Garfield is described as a turbulent personality. Clearly toured the US – which not many 60s wrestlers from the UK did. The article reminds me that he was billed as having “A chip on his shoulder”.

Most importantly Russell Plummer wrote: “Garfield was different and has always remained so. His arrogance immediately antagonized crowds … he was fighting everyone in the hall as well.”

Further comments about slow disrobing and standing on the corner post to see safe return of his garb to the dressing room give rise to thoughts of where Adrian Street Esq. got his ideas from.

Any further memories would be most gratefully read – and is the great man still alive?

nOstRomO  July 28, 2004 at 6:33 pm

Tony stated (elsewhere)

I don’t know about being a sub all the time as he was top of the bill quite a few times at Brighton Sports Stadium in the late 1950′s against guys like Mike Marino, Dai Sullivan, Ray Hunter, Sandy Orfield, Tony Mancelli etc

From the half dozen times I saw him during the late 1960′s onward he was always a sub. which always made me wonder whether he had been a headliner at some time, because he was that good. Perhaps he was only semi-pro at that stage of his career; I can’t find any further info.

Reminds me of the great Merseyside trouper, Monty Swann, who was occasionally billed but nearly always came on as a sub. He always gave 110% in the ring as well ( I particularly remember a brutal contest with early Giant Haystacks, just after his name change from ‘Haystacks Calhoun’ )

Woodlow July 29, 2004 at 8:32 am

I saw Alan Garfield, though very late in his career. That apalling purple robe!!!!

He did use to headline in the 60′s (and he was old then).

The man jobbed well!!!


Anglo Italian August 17, 2004 at 4:22 pm




Anglo Italian September 24, 2004 at 8:24 pm#16436

Saxonwolf has kindly told us that Alan Garfield was a Commonwealth Heavyweight Champion.

Everyone seems to remember him old and late in his career. This over many years. As mentioned earlier, he was never young.

However, a youthful Alan Garfield appeared in the much shown The Night and the City.

Woodlow September 25, 2004 at 10:37 am#16442

Frank Hurley!!!!!!

That was the other tag partner!!!!!!

Now him I didnt see, but I suspect he was on the same ageing drug as Garfield……….

Anglo Italian October 4, 2004 at 4:45 pm

Woodlow, you are psychic:

Reads like he did the lot in life. I never saw him either. Do you suppose he wrestled his cats for the milk?

But he was Australian, which may bear out my recollection that the great Alan Garfield was Australian, even though he was described also as being from Surrey.

Throw in the Commonwealth Heavyweight Title, all the Rebel Ray Hunter references, Count Bartelli’s winning of the title Down Under, and you have a decent Aussie thread, all linked to this title and Paul Lincoln. There’s clearly something substantial in it, it would just be nice to get the lid right of this connection.

Anglo Italian October 8, 2004 at 3:19 pm

However, Tony posted a magnificent 1963 results list elsewhere, from the midst of which shone out:

Tony wrote:

FEBRUARY 1963 INDEPENDENT RESULTS/BILLS

CAMBRIDGE  Garfield stpd Marino;

If Marino was an invincible hooker, what does that now make Alan Garfield?

 

Saxonwolf October 8, 2004 at 5:22 pm

That makes Mr. Garfield the man!!!! I can imagine you sitting there with a smile on your face Anglo! (unless it means Garfield was stopped by Marino…;) only kidding!!!!

Grizzled Veteran  December 22, 2004 at 8:04 am

Thank you Anglo for mentioning elsewhere this topic about the Turbulent one, which I had somehow overlooked.

I too only saw him late in his career, in a couple of real tear-ups with the late great Tony Mancelli. On those performances I would have liked to have seen him in his prime.

He was definately the archetypical heel, with that undefinable presence that antagonised the crowd just by being there.

Like you I had read he was Australian and also English. He certainly had a number of long and successful tours of the States, which would indicate he was more than a’jobber’. He deserves more recognition however the lack of real information is as always frustrating.

There doesn’t seem to be much input from our friends up north on this topic, was he too good to be sent up there?

I think this is a thread worth following even if it could be as difficult and convoluted as the tracing Bartelli one is proving. Having said that, Anglo you make reference to meeting him in the autograph thread, and you keep teasing that you were in the dressing room, rather than in the audience.

So what do you know??

Woodlow December 22, 2004 at 8:05 am

Have you ever considered Anglo, that you and I are the only people here who ever saw him.

He didnt do the Northern run…….

Perhaps Patriot????

Saxonwolf  December 22, 2004 at 12:12 pm

He was before my time I think, did he ever appear on TV? and also, as mentioned, he toured overseas a lot, was he a full time wrestler? did he have a private income that meant that he didn’t have to work? Just curious.


Woodlow  December 22, 2004 at 1:22 pm

Anglo is better at this than me, but…..

Alan Garfield did a lot of work 50′s/60′s. By 70′s he was subbing man, which is when I saw him. Good old fashioned heel. Purple cloak and loads of sneaky punches. Not known for winning.

Tended to tag with Johnny Yearsley or Frank Hurley, who were both out of the same barrel. Did loads of tag work at Brighton.

Ask Anglo for any more detail.

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 1:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Saxonwolf December 22, 2004 at 2:42 pm#18779  

Thanks Woodlow

Anglo Italian December 23, 2004 at 12:26 am#18817 

I just wanted to complete this forum with the precursor comments that had been buried away under another topic. This is because having started as a crank with a favourite wrestler that not many had even heard of, I now notice an increasing number of Alan Garfield fans and, by extension, others getting interested in him

I started off many months ago:

“Alan Garfield was never young. Some query over his commonwealth nationality, but he sounded very British to me. Tagged with Johnny Yearsley and Bruno Elrington. Wore a magnificent full-length robe, had a Clark Gable moustache, and looked and behaved like an out-and-out villain. Because there is so little coverage of him, my memory strains to recall what he was really like, and I would love to add on others’ memories to form a fuller picture.”

nOstRomO wrote:

“Alan Garfield was not a figment of anybody’s imagination.

Quote:

Wore a magnificent full-length robe, had a Clark Gable moustache, and looked and behaved like an out-and-out villain.

A very accurate desciption. I only ever remember seeing him as a substitute for a non-appearance. He never disappointed though, and could generate terrific heat from the fans.

He played the total out-and-out b*stard with no redeeming features – great stuff !!

Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about the man.”

Anglo Italian wrote:Nostromo, you are a diamond!

Your comments should whip others up into a frenzy of curiosity about Alan Garfield.

Yes, ever the sub. I wonder why – maybe he was unreliable, or more likely travelled in and out of UK a lot.

I’m going to get all my Wrestler mags out, find that 1965 article, and reveal more.

I don’t know about being a sub all the time as he was top of the bill quite a few times at Brighton Sports Stadium in the late 1950′s against guys like Mike Marino, Dai Sullivan, Ray Hunter, Sandy Orfield, Tony Mancelli etc”

(Apologies to Frank Hurley whose photo disappeared. I have now worked out what makes that happen and will avoid future vanishings.)

Now, getting us back up to the present day, Christmas 2004, and Grizzled Veteran’s remarks. I am intrigued that you are intrigued, Grizzled One. No, the occasion I mentioned when I spoke to Alan Garfield was not in the dressing room. He was arriving at the arena flanked by his wife and children. But as usual he was not billed to be on. When I went up and said what a great surprise it was to see him, he glowed with very understandable pride at being complimented in front of his family.

And red hot up to date tonight with Alan Bamber’s stupendous Count Bartelli research, an offshoot of that is regular 50s and 60s encounters between the two. This completes a hypothesis earlier that there was an Australian and Commonwealth title link. At last we see the pieces coming together. And we see that Alan Garfield did indeed venture north of London.

What about the point that Alan Garfield was elaborately folding purple gowns decades before later blonds? Maybe Alan Garfield got his ideas first hand from the original Gorgeous George (Wagner) on his U.S. tours? They would have been contemporaries.

Extending this, and in view of extended U.S. tours when very few Britishers travelled there, how much that came into British wrestling in the 50s and 60s was as a direct result of Alan Garfield importing the ideas? Gimmicks and effeminateness and vanity and even tag matches themselves?

Finally, and as this has picked up a bit – many many thanks to you all for putting up with my ramblings and rantings – we know that Alan Garfield is very sadly no longer with us. But what about that young family of his? I presume they have no idea this is going on.

I also presume that, if they did know, they’d be as surprised and proud of their dad as he was in front of them all those years ago.

Any ideas on how to trace and establish a contact with Garfields minor?

Oooh what a grilling they’d get!!!!!

 

 

Grizzled Veteran December 23, 2004 at 8:11 am#18828

Anglo says ‘Any ideas how to contact Garfield minor?’

As the Turbulent one was domiciled in Sussex it looks like a job for Woodlow. There can’t be that many Garfields in the phonebook.

Snippet from The Ring November 1963

The Destroyer (Dick Beyer-ledgendry american wrestler)is going big in Portland, Oregan territory. This youngster has startled West Coast wrestling devotees with victories over some of the greatest. Including Fred Blassie, Ernie Ladd, Alan Garfield, Dick Hutton (Ex NWA World Champ), Mighty Ursus.

There are three ex-World Championship claiments in that list, so if he was jobbing it was in top company.

In same magazine there is unusually a picture of British action. The caption reads Yuri Borienko (Rostov) knee drops his opponent Max Crabtree in a match held in England.

Unfortunately the face of the prone wrestler is obscured so can’t see whether it is the classic Crabtree features.

Saxonwolf December 23, 2004 at 9:42 am#18832

Alan Garfield needs more investigating. We are talking about a wrestler touring at a time when many (most?) British lads were not travelling to the USA. That means that either he was paid well, or he had enough of his own money to not worry about poor pay. Interesting stuff indeed.

Anglo Italian December 23, 2004 at 9:55 am#18836

Domiciled in Sussex, was he Grizzly? I didn’t know that. I quite believe you but would find the source interesting.

But alas I can’t go along with sending Woodlow to the phone book as I would imagine Alan Garfield was only a ring name. There was a 30s and 40s film star with similar looks and the same name, the name probably came from there. So now we’re searching for a real name, too.

Great list, great company to keep.

I’m pleased you’re getting into it, Saxonwolf. I’ve been pushing for a while, as you know, and the persistence has paid off and look what we are collectively discovering.

Saxonwolf December 23, 2004 at 10:10 am#18838

I’ve always been into it Anglo, just felt I had nothing to contribute as he was before my time, but I am (and always have been) fascinated with wrestlers who actually made a living from the game and were good enough to travel the world. As we have said before, this was not common back in the 50′s and 60′s and would seem very exotic to the man in the street.

We still need an “insider” don’t we? There must be books, records, etc from the original promoters office somewhere? an address or phone number for “Alan Garfield”, or how did they contact him to book him for a job? I wonder if the author of “The Wrestling” has anything??

Woodlow December 23, 2004 at 11:25 am#18841

Do you know how difficult it is to try and trace this stuff??? Thats why I was checking it was William Hill (though they didnt even know they eveer owned DM). Astaire I cant find any contact for.

I once saw an email from someone from the Dale family, but didnt note it, and never found it again….. I still suspect there is a garage somewhere……………..full………………

Funnily enough Brian Dixon might have a collection, unless Mitzi did to him what all other wives do…………….

FCC, any thoughts on where we might find an Aladdins Cave of old notes, results, anything???????

Tony December 23, 2004 at 11:35 am#18843

Well Tarzan Boy Darren found and bought the Relwyskow stuff so maybe the Dale Martin archive is somewhere ?

Grizzled Veteran December 23, 2004 at 1:09 pm#18846

Anglo Italian wrote:But alas I can’t go along with sending Woodlow to the phone book as I would imagine Alan Garfield was only a ring name. There was a 30s and 40s film star with similar looks and the same name, the name probably came from there. So now we’re searching for a real name, too.

It was ‘tongue in cheek’ because I had also made the connection to the film star. Perhaps it’s time to set up a database of real names, similar to those which are common on American websites.

Can’t rember where I saw that he lived in Sussex. But February ’66 edition of the Wrestler has item on him which says he had made two tours of the States, the first of which lasted three years. Also visited Europe, Africa, India, and far East.

On clue is that he was alledgedly selected to represent Britain as a weightlifter for the 1940 Olympic games. (Which of course were never held)

Woodlow December 23, 2004 at 1:13 pm#18847

OK Grizzly, your task, should you wish to accept it………

is to make a start on an alias database.

Just ask around, though Young David has to be your first port of call.

Start another thread for this one.

 

Anglo Italian December 26, 2004 at 6:22 pm

Elsewhere Tony St Clair gave us very positive memories of Alan Garfield’s ring presence. Here is Tony’s dad, Francis St.Clair Gregory, with a body scissors on Alan Garfield.


Later on Alan Garfield had shoulder length hair.


Hack December 28, 2004 at 11:12 pm#19092

Grizzled Veteran wrote:There doesn’t seem to be much input from our friends up north on this topic, was he too good to be sent up there?

A topic that is starting to develop a life of it’s own, Anglo. Not much comment from the North because to the regular Northern contributors I suspect Alan Garfield was (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) a bit of a non-entity. I’m not suggesting he was, of course, and it is one of the marvels of these forums how we all learn from each other’s experiences. I don’t recollect ever seeing Alan Garfield in the North at any time from 1965 onwards, Saxonwolf has made similar comments.

For us our only experience of this apparent superstar was a 17″ (then 19″, then 21″ black and white television set. Well, he may have had an appalling purple robe, he may have been the biggest villain out, but it never really came across on the tv screen. As Grizzled Veteran has said elsewhere, television was a sanitised version of the real life we watched in the halls, and whilst this was advantageous to some (especially the lighter men) the charisma, style and skill of others did not come across on the tv screens. That is one of the two reasons for the North/South argument – the men we watched in the halls always seemed better than the others because we could add our own real life experiences – the other reason is that the Northerners were just better. I’m sure Alan Garfield was everything you all claim, but it did not transfer to television so well. That, and his age, may be one of the reasons he was more of a jobber at the time we started watching wrestling. That was obviously not always the case, and I am happy to offer a bit more support. He was a regular in the Midlands in the fifties and early sixties (advertised, not a substitute) and when he was in the main event against Count Bartelli at Willenhall in November, 1955, the adverts proclaimed “For the first time ever in Willenhall! The roughest and toughest wrestler ever to enter the ring. After two years in the USA…Alan Garfield.”

Apart from supporting the quest to Trace Alan Garfield there is, it seems to me, a more serious point here. If a wrestler who had an international reputation over four decades can find such little recognition from a group of fans who followed wrestling for so many years then we really are in danger of losing a part of our heritage, and this forum plays a part in enabling us to do something about protecting it – and if that is me on my high horse again then, tough. One final point Anglo Italian. Thanks for inserting the photos. You, and others that take the time to do so, do add to our dialogue. Me..I can’t work out how to do it


Anglo Italian January 11, 2005 at 8:58 pm#19494

alanbamber wrote:A topic that is starting to develop a life of it’s own, Anglo. Not much comment from the North … he may have been the biggest villain out, but it never really came across on the tv screen … “For the first time ever in Willenhall! The roughest and toughest wrestler ever to enter the ring. After two years in the USA…Alan Garfield.” … If a wrestler who had an international reputation over four decades can find such little recognition from a group of fans who followed wrestling for so many years then we really are in danger of losing a part of our heritage.

Another majestic piece of research from Alan. The exclusions are essential in proving theories and tracing careers.

Don’t read me, guys, re-read the previous content-filled post!

Just a few reactions to it. I never saw Alan Garfield on tv. Did you really see him, Alan, others? Don’t forget he was ever the sub. If I go through my programmes from the south he doesn’t appear on many – but I saw him wrestle stacks of times. A real prolific super-value sub in his twilight years. So, though the evidence isn’t yet there, he may have appeared Up North.

They were not just idle Willenhall words to attract a crowd to a newcomer, but this AFTER two years stateside. He really was the definitive heel. That he made it work so long over there, then, and was asked back is acclaim in itself.

Finally, I see that this is a popular thread, with very few contributors. Therefore how right Alan is at a general level that it is only our comments here that will protect and record and perhaps even to some extent uncover the heritage of the sport that attracts us all here.

Woodlow January 12, 2005 at 8:22 am#19511

Yes, the American connection does seem to have been far bigger than we thought.

If you Google Alan Garfield, wrestling, there are a lot of USA references.

Yet I dont recall it ever being used when I saw him.

For its time, late 50′s/early 60′s it was probably quite revolutionary. But again, story lines and promotion werent necessarily followed through???


Hack January 14, 2005 at 10:55 pm#19646

Anglo Italian wrote: Did you really see him, Alan, others?

Okay, Anglo Italian this is just between you and me, right? Best not to mention it to anyone else on the forum.

You see Anglo, I am a defeated man.

I am willing to announce that Alan Garfield was the greatest wrestler the world has ever known. Greater than Billy Robinson, greater than Billy Joyce, even greater than Lord Bertie Topham.

Why this dramatic change of heart?

Well, you know I went to the wrestling for all those years long ago. I read everything there was to read, I watched everything there was to watch.

At the time I knew them all. Not now, of course, memories fade, but I knew them all.

That is why I confidently contributed to your thread on the wonderful, greatest Mr Garfield. I could do that because I knew them all.

Then you questioned me.

So, I searched the ITV site for Alan Garfield.

The truth was too frightening to comprehend. According to the site Alan Garfield never appeared on television.

I definitely never saw him live.

If he never appeared on tv then Alan Garfield has the power to impress his majesty on my memory.

I’d best go and lie down now.

I didn’t get the picture of that appaling gown though….the mind messages must have been in black and white

Tony January 20, 2005 at 9:57 pm#19801

Looking thru the Chelmsford bills today of May 1961 and one main event was Alan Garfield vs Gwyn Davies and the report the following week noted that Garfield won 2 falls to 1 despite to quote ‘the usual Garfield tantrums’.

Saxonwolf January 25, 2005 at 3:00 pm#19885

I managed to get a copy of the Pictorial History of Wrestling, not seen it since I was a schoolboy back in the 1970′s, quick flick through it and who should I spot, just about to get an aeroplane spin from Ricky Starr, but Alan Garfield!!!!!!

Anglo Italian January 30, 2005 at 6:53 am#20002

Alan Garfield pops up in all the literature. I was just reading the Mick McManus Wrestling Book, and it tells us that in 1964 he was Mr Big’s first professional opponent. Even there he had his regular TURBULENT tag, added to OUTSPOKEN.

On the question of names of film stars and real names, as inspired by Garfield and Grizzled Veteran on 23rd December, I have just noticed another post-war wrestler called Rex Harrison. Cinemas had a lot of power late 40s.



--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 1:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Anglo Italian February 1, 2005 at 7:31 pm#20078

Grizzled Veteran, you mentioned you have a 1966 article on Alan Garfield. You have shared some of its content. Can you share the rest, please.

Grizzled Veteran  February 2, 2005 at 6:28 pm#20121

Sorry Anglo, still haven’t figured out the scanner. But Mrs Grizzly kindly retyped the article.

Its a typical Wrestler puff, lots of words not much meat, but hope you enjoy.

John Rackham looks at Alan Garfield

A short while back, I was a witness to the roughest, most rip-roaring contest I have ever seen. It was between those notorious rule-bending skull-crackers, Turbulent

Anglo Italian February 11, 2005 at 6:13 pm#20417

Turbulent Thanks to Mrs Grizz for a much appreciated contribution.

Grizz, you seem to be the only one on here who has tamed their wife to obey in matters concerning wrestling. What is the secret?

Fascinating reading, I’m still picking up lots I didn’t know. I’m no expert on Alan Garfield, just a keen admirer. Alas I do know, if we can believe The Wrestling which has slid in credibility on here this year, that Alan Garfield is sadly no longer with us.

He did seem like he was intelligent, and the article certainly calls him cultured. I’ll believe that because it fitted what I had thought!

Who’s that tag partner of his, Karl von Schober? Now this is where HarryG could come in very handy if he’s watching this forum. Are you there? Is Karl von Schober still alive?

The overall impression is of an out and out villain who could really rouse the crowd.

Thanks again for all the time put in.

Kendo Nagasakis No 1 Fan February 16, 2005 at 10:18 am#20596

Just out of interest Anglo I have just been through all of Kendo Nagasakis’ bouts going back to the start………

Only 2 meetings with Alan Garfield:-

24/7/73 at Worthing where Kendo came out 2-1 victor and the following day at Cliftonville where they were scheduled to meet but I do not have the details of this one.

Anglo Italian February 24, 2005 at 11:59 am#20852

Grazie Numero Uno!

I suspect that Cliftonville result was an unmasking of Nagasaki and 2-0 victory for Alan Garfield to even up the two-day event.

I suspect that as both were baddies their paths didn’t cross much. How would those bouts have gone, Heel versus Heel, to quote an earlier thread?

Elswehere

Russell Plummer wrote: … and Marino versus Alan Garfield, the best heavyweight heel of his era, could always be relied upon to fill halls.

Garfield was more than just a heel, though. Sly, wily, superior, antagonistic … very original. And gloriously cowardly when all else failed.


Hack February 24, 2005 at 8:34 pm#20872

Anglo Italian wrote:

I suspect that Cliftonville result was an unmasking of Nagasaki and 2-0 victory for Alan Garfield to even up the two-day event.

Aah, yes. With the much used flying pigs speciality.

HarryG February 25, 2005 at 1:27 am#20885

Anglo Italian wrote:Who’s that tag partner of his, Karl von Schober? Now this is where HarryG could come in very handy if he’s watching this forum. Are you there? Is Karl von Schober still alive?

Not a whole lot of info on Von Schober. He worked the States ungder the moniker of Fritz Von Alberts as well as using the Von Schober name. he was a co-holder of the Canadian Open Tag Title with Fritz Von Erich. he held the Stampede tag Titles in Calgary with a guy named Ricky Waldo.

He held The Hawaiian Heavyweight Title as well.

He and Garfield won the International Tag Titles in california, back when the TV shows from California went nationwide. This would be 1962. Garfield was still being billed as “Sir” Alan Garfield.

Here’s a link to a photo of Schober wrestlin for la Lutte in France in the late-1950′s.

http://www.lutte-wrestling.com/catch115.html

Saxonwolf February 25, 2005 at 9:11 am#20891

HarryG wrote:

He and Garfield won the International Tag Titles in california, back when the TV shows from California went nationwide. This would be 1962. Garfield was still being billed as “Sir” Alan Garfield.

So Alan Garfield was, effectively, a national star in the USA in 1962, due to TV exposure!

HarryG February 25, 2005 at 10:05 pm#20910

Yes, but not for long.

Most of the wrestling that went nationwide came from the Dumont Network. They broadcast shows from the Marigold Arena in Chicago, the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles and MSG in New York.

These three venues served to make stars out of Verne Gagne (Chicago);

Gorgeous George (California) and Buddy Rogers (New York), among others.

Unfortunatly, Dumont died in 1956. ABC (a spinoff network from NBC)

took over most of Dumont’s old shows-including wrestling. ABC chose to stage sporadic broadcasts in the early morning hours. The result was that a viewer (if he could stay up that late) might not see wrestling for weeks in continuity-i.e. ABC showed matches from New York one week, Washington, DC the next, maybe Chicago or Los Angeles after that. Trying to keep abreast of what each wrestler was doing in each area became very difficult.

By the time 1962 rolled around, ABC was ready to stop showing wrestling in its entirity. This decision led to the birth of the two dozen or so territories-complete with their own local/regional shows on local stations-no more network exposure.

So Alan was seen nationwide-that is when ABC chose to broadcast from L.A. had he come around 6 or 7 years earlier, he definately would have been a national star.

Most of the VHS/DVD footage available from the late 1940s-the early-1960s comes from kinescopes of the old Dumunt network broadcasts.

Kendo Nagasakis No 1 Fan February 26, 2005 at 6:26 pm#20942

Anglo Italian said

I suspect that Cliftonville result was an unmasking of Nagasaki and 2-0 victory for Alan Garfield to even up the two-day event

Yes I am sure Anglo, just like I recall Big Daddy winning most of his tag team matches with a flying tackle !!!!!!

Anglo Italian March 14, 2005 at 10:37 pm#21427

Tony St Clair’s column tells us Alan Garfield was on a 4-week tour of Sweden in 1972. So he was clearly a full-timer even though he was appearing to many of us as an occasional sub at that time.

I wonder what the last wrestling date we can find for Alan Garfield would be? Of course, he probably finished off subbing and therefore not billed, but the search would be interesting.

Back to Alan Garfield’s tag team partner when they won those titles in the U.S.A. in 1962, Karl von Schober. I believe he actually wrestled in the UK about 1967 and am checking records for detail.

Tony March 14, 2005 at 10:59 pm#21428

Well August 1972 here and definitely not a sub……..


Hack March 15, 2005 at 7:13 pm#21446

I said back in December that this thread had developed a life of its own, and here we still are.

If only Anglo Italian had been Alan Garfield’s manager then the wrestler would have been a millionaire.

In response to Anglo-Italian’s query (have a hyphen, I’m feeling generous) the latest date we have for Alan Garfield wrestling is 25/7/73, when KNN1Fan tells us he was billed to face Kendo at Cliftonville.

Anglo Italian March 15, 2005 at 7:43 pm#21449

Thanks for that Tony and A-B. (Have it back)

The mystery man Alan Garfield is elusive not because of any mask but because he wasn’t billed very often. We seem to agree he was never ever on tv which is quite incredible. We need a real sighting in say 1974 to keep this kind of Dutch Auction going. Who can better the Bamber Bid of 25.7.73?

Interesting to revisit those links. Can we therefore infer that our Alan faced the very original Haystacks Calhoun? Looks 99% sure from the data. Did any others of our wrestlers face that huge name? Did Alan Garfield bring that name back for one Martin Ruane?

It would be kind of nice if someone on the inside would open up about Alan Garfield. We are clearly into adulation here and not prying or personal intrusion, the man is regrettably dead. This is not history-in-the-making, but history making, and storing.

Hack March 15, 2005 at 8:20 pm#21455

Okay, so 25/7/73 leads (honours go to KNN1Fan actually).

Let’s make it a double auction.

The latest Alan Garfield appeared, and the furthest North.

We know that he was very much a Southern man, but he did occasionally venture into the midlands. In the Count Bartelli thread we have reference to 1955 in Willenhall against Count Bartelli. He seemed quite active in the midlands in 1964, I have records of him 7/9/64 at Dudley versus Bartelli again, and three further shows at Willenhall, against Bruno Elrington, Tim Geoghan and Josef Kovacs.

The lead so far, though, goes to Belle Vue, Manchester. 20th July, 1963, Alan Garfield versus Jim Armstrong. You might remember Jim Armstrong was the Leeds heavyweight who wrestled in the BBCs 1960s venture into televising wrestling. Come on Ray, Woodlow, Anglo, and the rest. Beat Manchester

Kendo Nagasakis No 1 Fan March 16, 2005 at 11:38 pm#21489

Don’t forget gents that I do not know if Alan Garfield met Kendo 25/7/73 at Cliftonville as I do not have the result BUT he definitely met him the night before at Worthing.

Anglo Italian March 18, 2005 at 7:28 am#21525

Number One Fan, are you suggesting Nagasaki may have been scared of the return bout and cried off?

Kendo Nagasakis No 1 Fan March 20, 2005 at 5:07 pm#21579

No Anglo I am in fact suggesting the opposite and wondering if Alan Garfield cried off !

Hack April 1, 2005 at 6:59 am#21805

I read recently that Geoff Portz’s son wrestled in North America under various names. Two of them were Scott McGhee and Scott Shannon. A third was the name he was given at birth, Garfield Portz. Maybe the Shipley heavyweight, Geoff, was a fan himself!

Anglo Italian April 1, 2005 at 1:34 pm#21834

Rereading Prince Kumali biography it mentions Dara Singh. I believe Bruno Elrington and Pat Roach faced Dara Singh when they went to India.

Back in 1957, though, when Dara Singh came to the UK, who was his opponent at the Royal Albert Hall? Alan Garfield.

I had it in the back of my mind that the Dara Singh’s London opponent in 1957 was due to be Lou Thesz and will need help from historians in unravelling that blurred triangle. Maybe it was an early subbing call.

Here's Alan Garfield having a go:


--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 1:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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Wraybidd Dogg April 2, 2005 at 12:34 am

thats nott count barrtelli being atacked ther is it? luvly foto.

the dogg

Bearhug April 3, 2005 at 10:47 pm

My guess is Tibor Szakacs.

Best

Bearhug

PS. I’ll have more on Sir Alan tomorrow

Anglo Italian  April 6, 2005 at 10:17 am#21975

On the canvas in the picture is actually Bob Kirkwood.

Bearhug April 6, 2005 at 8:06 pm#21997

Anglo, I have the article all scanned and ready to go, but can’t for the life of me get it into a post. I’m not exactly computer illiterate, but it is not obvious unless I am missing something simple.

I’ll keep trying.

Sorry for delay, bear wth me.

Best, Bearhug



Bearhug April 6, 2005 at 11:01 pm#21999

Here you go! This article from ‘Wrestling World’ 1961 by the Editor Lou Ravelle. Hope it’s readable – I’m stilll learning.

More shots of the ‘Turbulent One’ from the S.S. Brighton to come.

Thanks Anglo and Chris

Best

Bearhug




Saxonwolf April 7, 2005 at 1:15 am#22000

Absolutely brilliant! thanks Bearhug, more great info on a wrestler I knew nothing about!

Anglo Italian April 7, 2005 at 7:40 am#22005

Bearhug, this is magnificent.

So this thread can now be deemed successful in really exploring and uncovering a career.

A very well written article indeed. “The Aristocrat of the Arena … toff … a good thrashing.” Love it.

Yes, the author encapsulates that special Garfield feature well. He was all nice and polite and then, literally, turned, sly. How misused is the word blindside. Most villains feel they need to be open with their villainy, visible, and consistent. The real Alan Garfield trusted the spectators’ intelligence, behaved like a real villain trying to get away with murder.

Can’t think of anyone else who applied hypocrisy so well. (Kellett exaggerated it).

And at last some clear pictures that do Sir Alan justice, too.

And since those glory days, haven’t the Americans always had a titled, monocled Brit following in Sir Alan’s noble footprints?

There’s one at the moment from Blackpool, I believe.

Well done on following the scanning tutorial, you need more practice. Get that Brighton article up!!! Did you ever see Alan Garfield, Bearhug?

Hack April 7, 2005 at 7:43 am#22006

Thank you Bearhug for this important contribution to our enjoyment.

Interesting he travelled way out west, but we struggle to place him very far north in UK.

However, we do now have some new contenders for how far North Alan Garfield travelled.

A study of his contests shows that he was very much a Southern man, rarely travelling into the Midlands even. We have noted him venturing as far North as Manchester, but it seems that occasionally he braved the cold and went even further North.

On 12th June, 1952 he appeared in Morecambe against Norman Walsh. Having resisted the Northern bugs he became even more adventurous the next year and on 7th March, 1953 faced Ron Johnson in Newcastle. The clear leader so far, though, goes to a match against Geoff Portz on 22nd February, 1960, in Hamilton, Scotland.

There are no doubt other examples, but that’s the best I could come up with. Maybe Ray can help.

Anglo Italian April 7, 2005 at 7:50 am#22007

That’s interesting, too.

On 7th November 1956 Alan Garfield defeated Geoff Portz – remember his short-arm scissors? – at the Royal Albert Hall.

Portz went on to achieve fame and titles in North America, and was closely linked with Nagasaki in 1972 Canada.

I believe Garfield-Portz was a standing dish late fifties early sixties, which means they may well have been close friends.

It now seems that Garfield was indeed the mentor who started the transatlantic rush….

In which case, can Henri Pierlot fit into the equation?

Hack April 7, 2005 at 7:53 am#22008

At the start of this thread I was pretty sceptical about the status of Alan Garfield. What we have found, though, was that he was a professional from the late forties until the 1970′s, he seemed to be a full time professional, and wrestled extensively overseas, gaining considerable success in North America, when that was not the done thing.

Surely all this begs the question, why did he not gain greater recognition at home?

The promoters seemed content to give him work, he was available at short notice it seems as he was often a substitute. We have noticed elsewhere that such loyalty resulted in becoming one of the star performers.

Why was this not the case here?

Was there something about Alan Garfield that made the promoters wary? But then why give him work at all?

Was there some reason he didn’t want television exposure or star billing?

The man had obvious talent. He seems to have been the prophet without honour in his own country.

It doesn’t seem to make sense. Anglo?

Bearhug April 9, 2005 at 12:24 am#22052

Below are four more shots of Sir Alan.

In his blazer; with a Boston crab on Jim Hussey and two from the old Sports Stadium Brighton in a tag match, where he partnered the Zebra Kid versus Angelo Giusto and Johnny Peters

Anglo/Alan/Saxonwolf thanks for your kind comments.

Anglo, I did see him several times:

I definitely remember, against Joe Cornelius twice, Georges Gordienko, Masambula, a young Gwynn Davies , Jerry de Jaeger (as billed) Prince Kumali and there were others – I must check my old programmes and handbills.

Best memory: Our man appears through the arena doors resplendent in black blazer and towel ‘cravat’, strolls to the ring, ducks under the ropes and booms at the crowd “Evening peasantsâ€

Anglo Italian April 9, 2005 at 9:18 am#22055

Priceless once again, Bearhug.

I particularly value your comments, as it is chiefly our words on here that can do justice to Alan Garfield, with no tv footage around to help.

Yes, working an audience was his forte, in a variety of ways, and not merely two-dimensionally like less thinking villains.

All this 1950s to 1963ish adulation just begs the question: why did his career, or rather status, decline so dramatically over the next ten years? He became a subber, and at best an opponent for other heavyweight stars, typically on supprting bouts. It seems he wasn’t invited to participate in the burgeoning tv wrestling scene 1964+.

Nobody regrets more than I do turning the angle of this to decline, but I do so in the interests of building a complete career picture, and with strong hope of being contradicted.

The fact is that the likes of Pallo, McManus, Kellett, Bartelli, Elrington, Nagasaki and many others continued to maintain their status well into their fifties and sixties and perhaps even in some cases beyond, with no sign of diminished status, in spite of obviously reduced ring skills and agility. They were also wholly embraced by the tv age and Joint Promotions’ media engines of the times.

Alan Garfield didn’t. Why not?

Bearhug April 9, 2005 at 11:53 pm#22070

Beats me Anglo!

Maybe he truly was his own man and had another agenda.

How anyone so talented could spend his career making others look good baffles me, but then again maybe he saw this as his true forte.

I guess we’ll never know, just another contributing factor to a golden age.

Best

Bearhug

 

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 1:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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THIS IS WHERE IT REALLY WARMS UP

Anglo Italian October 31, 2005 at 9:35 pm#25021

Bearhug wrote:

I guess we’ll never know, just another contributing factor to a golden age.

It’s a shame if that’s where it all ends, though. Why shouldn’t we know?

Plenty of guys around today who would know, but the nitty-gritty still doesn’t come out, does it.

As long as such harmless info about long deceased wrestlers remains concealed, I’ll continue to believe there is a lot more being covered up about the game than we care to believe ….


Graham December 7, 2005 at 6:07 pm#25879

I’m sorry to join this thread so late – it has only just been pointed out to me by my son.

Alan Garfield was my uncle Dudley, and I can probably tell you all you want to know about him. He did indeed live in Sussex, but only for a short while after he retired from wrestling when he tried his hand at running a hotel on the coast. From memory I think that lasted about two years.

He spent most of his life, while in the UK, in Beckenham, Kent. He was born in Peckham in 1923 and lived there with the family (apart from his time in the RAF during WW2) until he married his wife, Joan, at Camberwell Regiter Office in around 1952 or 53.

Perhaps I should not go on in such great detail, but am willing to answer any specific questions about him. He was billed (in this country) as Alan Garfield from Sydney, Australia. In the States he was Sir Alan Garfield from England, and in various other places such as South Africa, Israel, France, Italy, Asia, he used one of those or various other names (Yukon Rex went down well in South Africa). He was the most interesting man you could ever wish to meet, with a passion for vintage Bentleys, Bugattis, Alphas and Vincent motorcycles. He was a man of great intelligence with a very keen sense of humour, which you will know if you ever saw him in the ring. He always said he was not a ladies man, but women fell at his feet, as my wife has just pointed out. When he first met her he kissed her hand and she has not recovered since.

I remember him fighting Black Butcher Johnson, Primo Carnera and, beleive it or not Joe Louis.

He died some twenty years ago, and McManus and Pasquale Sylvo represented the wrestling fraternity at his funeral at Elmers End Crematorium.

My aunt is still alive, as are his son Bob and daughter Mary.

I felt very proud when I saw this thread, (although I have not yet read all of it), and it was a great pleasure to see all the photographs, some of which I don’t remember seeing before.

Graham

Hack December 7, 2005 at 6:59 pm#25880

Good grief.

Well, I’ll go t’ foot of our stairs, as we say in Lancashire when stronger words are not permitted.

Graham, prepare yourself for the welcome you are about to receive.

Meanwhile, welcome.

I’ve gone all flustered. I’ll just have to go and lie down now.

Hack December 7, 2005 at 7:25 pm#25881

Right, I’ve composed myself now.

Graham, I’m a bit of an imposter on this thread. You see the awful truth is that although I followed wrestling avidly for fifteen years from 1965 I never saw Alan Garfield wrestle. I knew of him, of course, and you’ll read earlier in the thread that my memory even convinced me that I’d seen him on television – the Friends of Alan Garfield Society soon put me right on that one.

Which does bring me to my question, if you can call it that. Can you shed any light on the mystey of why your uncle, who was obviously such an outstanding wrestler and international star, had a career which seemed to dwindle out in the way it did? Here was a genuine superstar that didn’t benefit from tv (do you know why?) and seemed to spend his latter years subbing for other wrestlers. He deserved better.

The only other question, you don’t happen to know any relatives of Kendo Nagasaki or Count Bartelli do you?

palais fan December 7, 2005 at 8:17 pm#25886

I really enjoyed reading through this thread again and reminding myself what a brilliant heel Alan Garfield was. His ability of appearing to do dastardly things to his opponent on the blind side of the ref but in full view of the fans, was second to none.

Like most fans of my generation in the south of England, I often used to scream and shout myself hoarse at the referee when Alan was doing his stuff at the Wimbledon Palais and elsewhere. He was a strong powerful man (not surprised to read he was a good weight lifter) and completely believable as he bullied opponents like Tibor, Mike Marino etc.

When Alan was on the bill it was guarenteed to be a great night out. I was interested to note he was born in Peckham. Regular contributors will know that my Dad was also a great wrestling fan before and after the Second World War and he too, was born in Peckham.

It seems that there was a definite South East London hot-bed of professional wrestling in the 1950s in and around Bermondsey, New Cross, Peckham, Camberwell and Brixton. I think there is scope for one of those ‘all time great cards’ using only wrestlers from that patch. If such a bill had gone ahead Alan’s name would be there at the top. The venue would have to have been the Palais even though that would have ment them all having to travel to SW19. 

Graham December 7, 2005 at 9:18 pm#25891

alanbamber wrote:Right, I’ve composed myself now.

Graham, I’m a bit of an imposter on this thread. You see the awful truth is that although I followed wrestling avidly for fifteen years from 1965 I never saw Alan Garfield wrestle. I knew of him, of course, and you’ll read earlier in the thread that my memory even convinced me that I’d seen him on television – the Friends of Alan Garfield Society soon put me right on that one.

Which does bring me to my question, if you can call it that. Can you shed any light on the mystey of why your uncle, who was obviously such an outstanding wrestler and international star, had a career which seemed to dwindle out in the way it did? Here was a genuine superstar that didn’t benefit from tv (do you know why?) and seemed to spend his latter years subbing for other wrestlers. He deserved better.

The only other question, you don’t happen to know any relatives of Kendo Nagasaki or Count Bartelli do you?

Yes, I can supply a full answere to that. All your questions centre round the same issue; the TV bookings were done by McManus and Pallo at the Brixton office (hence their very frequent appearances). They were a little jealous of his drawing power, and limited his TV bookings. He did appear at least twice on the Saturday afternoon spots, but he rather blotted his copy book by telling Kent Walton what he thought of his commentating style. All part of the act, really, but Kent took it seriously.

At that time he was pretty much tied up with restoring old cars, and being a little teed off with Dale Martin he went to work for the opposition (I remember going to the Gaumont State in Kilburn High Road with him when he fought Sky Hi Lee, who was seldom seen without a six-shooter in one hand and a crate of bourbon in the other. It was a poor show, although it seemed to go down well with the fans. Some time later he went back with Alan and Jackie, but I don’t think his heart was in it and he was very busy with the cars. The last time I saw him fight was at the Corn Exchange, Maidstone, and that must have been in the early seventies.

As a matter of interest, the two venues that were consided by Dale Martin to be the core of their operation were the Maidstone Corn Exchange and Beckenham Baths. I could never work that out because I used to go to much fancier places with him (Albert Hall and Brighton Ice Rink to name but two) and they held far more people.

I’d like to correct a mistake I made earlier – he wasn’t Yukon Rex in South Africa, he was Klondike Rex, a lumberjack. And he grew a beard for the part. Also I should correct someone else’s mistake about hair. He didn’t like long or short hair, and his own was always well-and-truly medium.

Can’t help with Kendo Nagasaki or Count Bartelli I’m afraid. The only wrestlers I have spoken to since my uncles death are Bobby Barnes, who was a neighbour of mine, and Jackie Pallo, who I still see very infrequently.

Graham

Hack December 7, 2005 at 9:59 pm#25892

Thanks Graham. I think your comments have confirmed the suspicions of men.

And he did appear on tele! What a night this has turned out to be.


Graham December 7, 2005 at 10:48 pm#25894

palais fan wrote:I often used to scream and shout myself hoarse at the referee when Alan was doing his stuff at the Wimbledon Palais and elsewhere.

The Wimbledon Palais was one of his favourite venues. He loved the audience there, and disliked the owner, whose name I can’t remember – it was a French name.

Yes, the whole operation was SE London based with the office and gym in the Stockwell Road. This could be why they liked Beckenham and Maidstone – both fairly easy to get to in the ricketty old ex-ambulance that they used as a bus.

A little detail about the weight-lifting. He was Britain’s strongest man at the age of sixteen and was due to represent Britain in the Olympic Games that never took place because of the war. He kept his amateur status by working for a magazine called ‘Health and Strength’ that organized weight-lifting events. He didn’t really work for them, but says he went in half a day each week and licked stamps to make the arrangement above-board. I think that was the normal way things were done – probably still is.

He continued lifting weights – and they were very heavy weights – several mornings a week for most of his life. I used to sit in the shed at Surrey Road, Peckham while he trained, and he told me that while Samson’s strength was in his hair, his was in his shoe-laces. I think there was some truth in that, as he often used to break off to tighten them.

It’s pretty certain, at least to me, that that was the cause of his relatively early death. He always ate a weight-lifter’s diet, and a combination of the rich food and the strain on his muscles led to thrombosis. At the very end he had both legs amputated, and was gone within a couple of days. He was not the sort of guy that would be able to do without legs.

Y’know, that french name keeps almost coming into my head. I bet I’ll remember it as soon as I click ‘submit’.

palais fan December 7, 2005 at 11:42 pm#25895

Thanks Graham for commenting on Alan Garfield’s love for the audience at the Wimbledon Palais. We (my Dad, brothers and friends) were regulars on a Thursday night for many years and, as I said, we were very well entertained by Alan (I fancy starting a campaign to go with the Americans and call him ‘Sir’ Alan from now on!).

The French name you are trying to remember is probably Devereaux. Herbert Devereaux was the promoter there (not the owner of the Palais but the promoter of the wrestling) during Alan’s heyday. I understand from Tony’s and Russell’s previous comments on this site, and from other sources, Ken Joyce became the matchmaker and carried on promoting under the Devereux name at the Palais and at other venues.

Saxonwolf December 8, 2005 at 10:01 am#25900

Graham, a very warm welcome to this forum, you have found us at a very interesting time! We have contributions from World of Sport wrestlers such as former globe trotting British Heavyweight Champ Tony St. Clair, Banger Walsh, Kung Fu Eddie Hammil, Chic Cullen, current British Heavyweight Champ Drew McDonald and Klondyke Kate amongst others (sorry for those I have not mentioned) and recently we have been joined by the daughter of Gwyn Davies, the daughter of Marty Jones, the son of Albert Wall and now you! Our regular posters on this forum include some very knowledgable fans, some who have been around for many years (known affectionately as the “Seniles”;) and other younger fans who want to learn more about the golden age of Britsih wrestling.

Being born in 1962, I was a bit too young to remember Alan Garfield and this thread and the contributions from the people on here have given me great pleasure in learning about one of the best villains of his age (you have yet to hear from Alan’s all time number one fan, “Anglo-Italian”;) and thanks to the wonders of the internet, we even found out that Alan would have been a TV star in the USA when he held a tag team title in (I think) the Los Angeles area.

I always say that when I was a young lad, reading a wrestling magazine or listening to Kent Walton say “…just returned from an overseas trip..” I always thought that wrestling was a glamerous life! It sounds like your Uncle had a taste of that.

I am really sorry to hear that the thing he loved, weight lifting, may have had a contribution to his death, as a keen lifter myself I can never imagine “retiring” from that aspect of my life.

Many thanks for joining this thread (and hopefully others) and many thanks for answering questions, filling in gaps and giving us an insight into the inner workings of the business.

Graham December 8, 2005 at 10:44 am#25902

palais fan wrote:The French name you are trying to remember is probably Devereaux.

Yes. Thank you. I didn’t remember it last night, but did this morning when I woke up.

Graham December 8, 2005 at 11:12 am#25903

Saxonwolf wrote: … we even found out that Alan would have been a TV star in the USA when he held a tag team title in (I think) the Los Angeles area.

He did two tours of the US, one in the early fifties, soon after his marriage, and one that must have been around 1960 or 61. From memory, I think they each lasted around eighteen months or two years. The picture of him in the straw boater was taken for advance publicity on the second trip. He flew to Buffalo with a 4-1/2 litre Bentley and drove it down the east coast as far as the southern states, then across to the west coast via Route 66. This was all done, of course, in a blaze of publicity, and the car was sold at the end of the trip. He then bought a Chevrolet Impala to use for the rest of his stint.

He disliked doing American television as it was usually done in a theatre or large studio with the audience on one side only. Sometimes there was no audience at all. When the TV audience saw it, they saw a back-projected crowd behind the ring. This didn’t suit his style, because most of his business was with interactive arguments with the punters.

He also did two shorter trips (six months each, maybe) to SA, again one in the fifties and one in the sixties, and one of Asia, which I think followed on from the first SA trip. Everywhere else he made one-night-stands, except Israel where he used to stay for a week. The overseas venue he spoke of most was the ‘Palais des Sports’ in Paris.

Graham


--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

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Posts: 906

Saxonwolf December 8, 2005 at 12:26 pm#25904

Graham, fascinating stuff again! Great to hear that Sir Alan took a Bentley to the USA! that must have really cemented his image with the American audience! This is a great contribution from you, thank you.

Anglo Italian December 8, 2005 at 2:41 pm#25907

I have just returned and am in a state of thorough shock.

After a lie-down, I shall return to discuss hair lengths and the rest.

This is quite ….

Old David December 8, 2005 at 4:01 pm#25912

As you can tell Graham, we “seniles” have all gone into shock, rather like teenage girls at the time of the Beatles, to discover that an actual relative of the one and only Alan Garfield has been reading our thoughts on this site.

Threads about Alan Garfield are endless here and his lack of high profile TV exposure has only assisted the aura of mystery surrounding the great man over the years.

I am a genuine “senile” and saw Alan Garfield wrestle live many times during the 1960′s.

The one thing you were guaranteed in an Alan Garfield match was 150% of your money’s worth. He was never in a disappointing contest. He only ever seemed to work with the best in the business and I’m sure that must have helped.

An interesting observation that highlight’s his class was the fact that he invariably topped the bill against all the best heavyweights in the world from Georges Gordienko down.

Therefore his win/loss record against these type of opponents was not very impressive. However each night, when you sat in your seat (or stood up screaming at him) as you watched the match you were certain that he had a real chance of winning and whoever he was against were going to be defeated by his underhand bullying tactics and arrogance.

How could he lose so many matches to people who were so obviously his inferiors!

He could and he did, regularly. That’s what made him so good.

One final anecdote to remind everyone what a great performer he was.

It is the mid 1960′s and I had just watched an excellent main event at my local hall (Bath or Bristol). Joe Cornelius had narrowly defeated Alan Garfield by 2 falls to 1 fall, as always a great match.

I was a true wrestling junkie at the time and it was the middle of the summer. So the next day when I heard that there was a wrestling show at Newbury (over 50 miles away) I decided to go. No details of the bill however.

Straight from work at 5pm onto my motor bike and off to Newbury. I was slightly disappointed to find after travelling that far that the main event was Alan Garfield v Joe Cornelius.

No critisism intended of either man, but both were regulars in my area and having travelled so far I was hoping for something a bit more exotic, we used to get many exciting foreign visitors in those days.

Undeterred I paid my money and sat down ready to watch the same match I saw last night. Sure enough, somehow (in spite of Alan Garfield’s cheating and dirty tactics), Joe Cornelius won by 2fall to 1 fall again.

That was where the resemblence ended. These two great professionals put on a completely different match from that night before. The only thing this match had in common with the first was that it was equally as good and the end result was the same. Fantastic!

I gained so much respect for both men that night. I so admire the effort these top professionals used to put on for us fans every night all over the country.

Sir Alan Garfield we “seniles” salute you!


Anglo Italian December 8, 2005 at 5:35 pm#25913

Graham, you have been generous and complete in your responses, many thanks … even if I can’t 100% agree on the hair. I met and spoke to Alan Garfield a few times, even the little chats were all quality as you describe. But in ca 1972 he did have shoulder length hair, curling at the bottom. Please check or I’ll have to consign myself to the loony bin: when I first coined the expression “senile” it was a joke, but may be now unnervingly accurate if I am wrong.

All the detail and info which I am sure we have all absorbed is overshadowed by the tragic circumstances of Alan Garfield’s death. Unpleasant reading, but we wanted to know, and you explained it most respectfully. Well done.

The Kent Walton answer, for once on here, fits just perfectly into the puzzle we have been trying to unravel. The comments about McManus giving him a wide berth surprise, and if you are right that Pallo was a joint or Joint booker, this is the first any of us have heard of it. Again, it would fit with other facts we do know.

I had mentioned earlier that he had a young family, and would guess that your first cousins are about 45 and, the girl, 40 years old now?

Whatever became of the robe? Julien Morice’s son-in-law told us about his dressing gown, maybe you can follow.

Why did Uncle Dudley choose his ring name?

Congratulations to fellow posters who correctly pieced together so much info about American trips, Sussex locations and all the rest. Nice to see the confirmation, isn’t it?

Thanks to the indefatiguable Ray, here we have details of Alan Garfield’s tv bouts:

Guy Fawkes 1960, Wembley, v Jamie Olivera

11.2.61, Kingston, v Frank Orlik

15.5.61, Wembley, v Johnny Czeslaw

30.9.61, Wembley, v Jim Hussey

This Hussey bout must have been the one where Kent Walton got offended. I’m sure we’d all love to know a bit more about that!

Too much quality input lying dormant elsewhere on Alan Garfield, so I hope the authors below allow me to repost their interesting comments here.

Grizzled Veteran wrote:

In autumn 1959 a new leisure and shopping centre opened in Welling, Kent on the South East London borders. At the centre of this development was a magnificent new ballroom called The Embassy. Dale Martin were quick to spot the attraction of this a venue and started promoting there weekly on a Tuesday night, this was in addition to their regular bills at two other halls in the close locality.

As this was clearly a prestige venue they pulled out all the stops and a procession of big names were billed. I was probably at my most fanatic at that time and kept a notebook where I recorded all the bills at the three halls during the period August 1959 to December 1960. A total of 105 bills.

Alan Garfield appeared on 16 of those bills, an average of once a month. Other wrestlers particularly the local and lighter weights appeared more often. However without exception on each appearance Alan Garfield was in the main event, never in a supporting contest. Something equalled by no other performer.

His opponents? 7/8/59 Gordon Nelson, 18/9/59 Gilbert Voiney, 6/10/59 Ramon Napolitano, 11/12/59 Billy Robinson, 29/12/59 George Gordienko, 12/1/60 Billy Joyce, 1/2/60 Digger Rowell, 9/2/60 Horst Hoffman, 14/3/60 Felix Kerschitz, 29/3/60 Ray Hunter, 12/4/60 The Zebra Kid, 24/6/6/0 Dave Armstrong, 23/8/60 The Zebra Kid, 27/9 /60 Iska Khan, 5/12/60 Pat Barrett, 13/12/60 Rocca Lamban.

With the exception of Digger Rowell and Rocca Lamban who I don’t know anything about, all top level performers.

Furthermore and this will cause our friend in the north to choke on their tripe and cowheel, contests that would have topped the bill elsewhere were relegated to a supporting role. Gordon Nelson v Billy Joyce, John Da Silver v Billy Joyce, Dennis Mitchell v Gordon Nelson, Ray Appollen v Dave Armstrong, Dennis Mitchell v Kiwi Kingston are just a selection.

What’s more until June 1960 he was billed not as Turbulent, but as ‘The Sensational’ Alan Garfield, and on one handbill ‘The Most Sensational Figure in Wrestling’ and his place of origin was billed as Sydney, New South Wales. It wasn’t until the 24/6/60 handbill for his bout against Dave Armstrong that he was billed as ‘Turbulent’ and ‘Late of Sydney now of London’.

Finally I also kept over that period a note book of all the televised contests I saw, with results but unfortunately no dates. I don’t claim that the record is comprehensive as we didn’t have a tv at home in the late 50’s.

But I recorded the details of 1 program in 1957, 3 in 1958, 9 in 1959, 24 in 1060, and 39 in 1961. The majority of these transmissions were live, and the last contest invariably has ‘did not see end’ against it. I have no record of him appearing in any of these transmissions.

However if at that time the promoters were attempting to establish wrestling as a main line sport and it was being transmitted live. Then they might not have wanted to risk an unpredictable performer, a bit like Rocco in later years. I also looked for the first disqualification, and the first one I could find was not until half way through 1961 when Jim Hussey was disqualified against Ali Bey.

Bearhug:  Nice one GV

I came across these handbills from 1961 at the weekend, just to stir the pot.



Best

Bearhug

PS. Les Kellet was a no-show and we had Gori Ed Mangotich [he who took over Doctor Death's hood from Paul Lincoln] I can’t remember a match where there was more heat! It resulted in not one, but two rematches.

Russell Plummer wrote: Good to see the greatest heel of his era is not forgotten.

Although I missed earlier Garfield threads, my own first recollections of him are as a consistent Dale Martin bill topper and crowd puller in the 1950s and a campaigner who had a real presence in the ring. At that time, who else could have the fans through the roof by simply taking off his dressing gown? He always wore floor length purple robes and after climbing slowing through the ropes would remove the gown, painstakingly fold it and then insist on waiting while his second took it all the way back to the dressing room.

He could spring surprises too. At Peterborough in the late 50s, there was a long build up to a clash with fellow Australian Bill Verna, then just about the biggest man in the business standing 6ft 6in and weighing-in at 21 stones. DM main events were always 6 x 10 min rounds in those days and after the typical Garfield build-up the bell went and the pair of them then produced over half an hour of hammer locks and head mares without a single blindside move by Garfield. I don’t know whether it was down to the wrestlers, or a shrewd touch by Jack Dale who always ran the Peterborough shows at that time, but the outcome was a a complete shock to the crowd.

After a lengthy absence in Canada and the USA, Garfield was back for Paul Lincoln in the 1960s and although purple robe was long gone, his matches against the likes of Al Hayes, Mike Marino and the emerging Dave Larsen were still memorable.

archive wrote:I think you will find that Alan lived somewhere in the Middlesex area

Sometime my old mate Russell did not mention was that he always used to hold the water bottle up to the light and complain the water was cloudy

to get the punters wound up even more 

Anglo Italian wrote: We can now identify how far north Alan Garfield wrestled.

Thanks to Ray, a fascinating result emerges from 13th February 1973 in Aberdeen.

He lost by a technical knockout to Big Daddy. This seems to be a very very early reference to the Big Daddy name.

Other results show Garfield a regular fall guy in the seventies to Kowalski, Parkes, Roach and other newcomers, yet interestingly continuing to hold Marino to draws.

He also had quite a flurry of activity as opponent to Kellett and Masambula.

He also seems to have been absent the whole of 1969, which makes one wonder where he was.

His career seems to have gone out with a whimper in some small 1974 independent promotions.

Does anyone have any posters with pictures of Alan Garfield on?

Do you, Graham, have any Alan Garfield memorabilia not already posted here?


 

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:00 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Graham December 8, 2005 at 8:48 pm#25918

Thank you all for the very warm welcome you have given me. I think I qualify to be a member of the ‘seniles’, although I act like a child and am still playing in a rock ‘n’ roll band.

If I miss out on any questions, please ask them again. (Okay, I do qualify for the seniles.) I feel a little guilty that I’m dispelling the mystery – like the man who captures the Loch Ness monster and puts it on display.

There were two purple robes. The first one had an ermine collar and ran from near the start to about 1958 or 9, and the second had a figured gold lame collar. The de-robing process was carefully choreographed. It included shaking hands with the referee (Stan Stone, a really lovely man, was one of his best friends from the wrestling fraternity), and often a V-sign to the loudest section of the crowd, coming up from under the folded cape at the end of the routine.

Furthest north: I think probably Reykjavík, but on our island, Wick.

TV appearances: I think Beckenham can be added to that list.

Interesting fact: There was one, and only one, venue where he was cheered rather than booed. I think it was Brighton, but I can’t swear to it. I asked him why, and he didn’t know. Al Hayes said it was because they were weird there. Actually, I’m pretty sure it was Brighton.

Name and nationality: Alan was the name of his best friend when he started in the game. I can’t remember his surname, but uncle had a cigarette lighter inscribed ‘From Alan to Alan’. He said he chose Australia because it was the only country he had never visited. I think it’s far more likely that it was one of the few countries he had never visited. My dad used to say that Russia was the only place he had never been to, and I didn’t believe that either.

End of career: By 1972 he was pushing fifty, and thought he had given wrestling his best. It’s true that Les Kellet and Mike Marino were older than he was – Les very much so – but he had other business interests, a dress-making concern was one, and the cars, always the cars. He was rounding up and sending off Bugattis to Switzerland like nobody’s business, and he spent years on a 1932 Zugato bodied Alpha that won the Le Mans 24 hour race in that year. That car eventually got the record price at the Beaulieu car auction, but I don’t know if he recovered the expenses incurred over the fourteen years he spent restoring it. It was part of our life; the body was shot-blasted and re-finished at least twice, tyres had to be specially manufactured, a tool made to extrude the rubber to go round the cockpit – it seemed endless. Towards the end he only went out to fight when really pushed.

Do I have any memorabilia?: Well, pictures certainly, but only family pictures, and rather inaccessible. They are in the loft. If you want me to I shall dig them out, but I can’t promise a time scale. He was a very keen photographer, and took hundreds of pictures of me when I was kid. I don’t suppose you want to see them! I had a look on my computer, and found one of me and my mum that he took on the beach at Perranporth in 1956. We were staying at Stan Stone’s sister’s cottage in nearby Penwartha Combe at the time.

Where he lived: Not Middlesex, I’m afraid. These dates are approximate, and omit the foreign tours.

1923 – 1952: Surrey Road, Peckham

1952: Dulwich, for a short time, near the hospital.

1953 – 1956: Sylverdale Road, Sydenham. A lovely house.

1956 – 1962: Wickham Way, Beckenham.

1962 – 1973: Coper’s Cope Road, Beckenham. A large four-storey house near Beckenham Hill station. Now knocked down for flats, I think.

1974: Bournemouth – the hotel

1975 on: Back to Coper’s Cope Road, Beckenham, on the other side of the road.

All for now.

Graham

jayjay December 8, 2005 at 9:01 pm#25919

I remember when Alan was appearing on the independent circuit and worked for such promotions as Alan Hollamby, Neil Sandsetc.. I appeared on a few shows when he was main eventing and tagging with Docker Don Stedman against teams such as Neil Sands with Bob Taylor. He also was wrestling top of the bill at Witham Public Hall, in Essex with Ricky Starr- A small hall of around 320 capacity, sold out and extra seats put out. His performance was perfect, both him and Ricky did all their classic pieces, and it was an airplane spin finish !!

A true professional he passed on many tips to the young up and coming wrestlers.[/code]

Anglo Italian December 8, 2005 at 11:59 pm#25923

Graham wrote:

If I miss out on any questions, please ask them again.

Name and nationality: Alan was the name of his best friend …

… Pictures … are in the loft. If you want me to I shall dig them out…

You are in no way blowing the whistle on any one or any thing, Graham. As far as I’m concerned your fascinating insights just add to the memory of a great entertainer and keep his memory alive, even in those who never saw him.

Are you saying that Garfield was his real surname?

Jayjay makes an interesting point that Alan Garfield passed on knowledge to younger wrestlers. Were you aware of that? Did he mention any particular protegés? It seems 90% sure that Adrian Street got his disrobing and gold lamé kit ideas from Garfield’s precedent, did your uncle ever mention that while Street was making it big?

I think we all like to know about his relations with other wrestlers. You mention Stan Stone and the controversial Les Kellett. Most wrestlers have a Kellett story or view. Did Alan Garfield? Which other wrestlers did he use to mention?

He also seemed to enjoy the business from the way you write; he enjoyed his repertoire, that was clear from the way he executed it.

Funny to see you mentioning your loft, many of us have made the same comment, but there is only one thing to do … you did offer!

We cast out feelers in search of contacts, so I’d be very interested to know how you “found” us?

Finally, if it’s not private, do the two children I refer to and his widow know about this attention Alan Garfield is receiving in 2004 and 2005?

Old David December 9, 2005 at 11:29 am#25926

All this information about one of the true legends of British Wrestling make this thread an absolute joy to read.

Graham is being so generous and open with his time and knowledge that I would like to probe further into one question that has been touched on, but the answer has so far not been given the importance it merits.

It would appear from the records we have, that Alan Garfield’s last television appearance was as long ago as 1961.

After that date he continued working for over 10 years, most of it for Joint Promotions and most of that time topping the bill of their shows all over Britain.

How could it be good business to deprive one of their top names television exposure?

I know you mentioned ‘professional jealousy’ and the fact the he upset Kent Walton; but can this alone account for such disgraceful treatment of one of their top names.

Throughout the 1960′s, as well as all the greats we remember, many less talented workers often graced our screens. Why no Alan Garfield?

How did the great man himself feel about this shoddy treatment?

Saxonwolf December 9, 2005 at 1:45 pm#25933

Hi Graham, I told you Anglo-Italian was Alan’s biggest fan!

Anglo, given the time of year that Graham has arrived here, I take it you now believe in Father Christmas!!!!

Anglo Italian December 9, 2005 at 2:01 pm#25934

Hi Saxonwolf,

Within the constraints of our little world on-line together here, this is quite spectacular, isn’t it? We have other contacts on the inside, but Uncle Dudley’s nephew Graham has been the most forthcoming so far and realises we are no threat to privacy but a band dedicated to raising respectfully the profile of Alan Garfield and pro wrestling in general.

I shall be calling you out on the Rocky Wall thread soon , Saxonwolf, as son Gary reckons I’ve got my Andy Robin details mangled, and you and David Mantell are experts on title histories, even the obscure Commonwealth Mid-Heavyweight one.

Old David has just stood up manfully to Tony St Clair elsewhere this lunchtime, and it is interesting that we “mere” fans are regularly being proved right on a variety of topics.

I think wrestling fans in particular are afraid of being considered crackpots, maybe we are, but in this little forum we clearly know our stuff.

I shall continue to explore the length of Alan Garfield’s hair with Graham, and let’s hope Tony St Clair continues to share his insights with us as he is our biggest name by far to participate with us on here. I can feel a “Tracing Tony St Clair” in the pipeline for Christmas ….

Someone:

Hi Anglo

Yes it’s great to get the details on Alan Garfield, a man I only really know about from this thread.

As for Tony St. Clair, yes, a dedicated thread is long overdue, with the man himself usually around at some point to help us!

Thanks.

forearm smash December 9, 2005 at 7:44 pm#25945

thank you graham for a very interesting insight into your uncle.we are aware that you did not have to do this,but the fact you did we are all very glad you did.

i only saw your uncle wrestle twice.and i can honestly say he wasone of two wrestlers who frightend the life out of me.a true testomony of how well he played the part.i think i am right in saying both times he lost on a dq verdict.he did not mess about when the bell rang.

anglo has touched on it,but what i would like to know is who he got along with and who he didn`t.once again thank you for being most forthcoming with your answers.

Graham December 9, 2005 at 8:09 pm#25947

Anglo Italian wrote:Are you saying that Garfield was his real surname?

No, sorry, I lapsed. He was looking for a name beginning with ‘G’ to match his own, and wanted one with exactly the right ring. I think, but am not sure, that the particular Garfield that put it into his head was the American president.

Anglo Italian wrote:Jayjay makes an interesting point that Alan Garfield passed on knowledge to younger wrestlers. Were you aware of that? Did he mention any particular protegé? It seems 90% sure that Adrian Street got his disrobing and gold lamé kit ideas from Garfield’s precedent, did your uncle ever mention that while Street was making it big?

We certainly knew Adrian Street. He lived on a houseboat with another wrestler – Al Hayes maybe, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t think he was too fussed about imitation, in fact the story goes that it was Gorgeous George who inspired him to adopt his style. And he certainly pinched Klondike Rex from Yukon Erid. He took the American style back to the Americans with British finesse, in much the same way that the Beatles took rock ‘n’ roll back to them. I didn’t mention that he appeared in the States for one-offs before either of the tours. I have seen newsreel footage of him defeating Black Butcher Johnson and also fighting the Wrestling Midgets – both, I think, from Madison Square Garden, certainly New York.

Anglo Italian wrote:I think we all like to know about his relations with other wrestlers. You mention Stan Stone and the controversial Les Kellett. Most wrestlers have a Kellett story or view. Did Alan Garfield? Which other wrestlers did he use to mention?

Well, all of them really. He didn’t see any of them socially much, but he was quite friendly with Steve Logan (a sausage connoisseur, I remember) and Al Hayes. He didn’t use the organised transport much – he kept a VW Beetle for going to gigs.

Anglo Italian wrote:We cast out feelers in search of contacts, so I’d be very interested to know how you “found” us?

A friend of my eldest son was talking about wrestling, and he said “My great-uncle was a real wrestler!” She asked the name and Googled up this forum.

Anglo Italian wrote:Finally, if it’s not private, do the two children I refer to and his widow know about this attention Alan Garfield is receiving in 2004 and 2005?

Yes, they know, and are very pleased. Aunt Joan is now around 80. Bob is 50, and unfortunately not in good health just now. Mary is 39, living in Australia, and very happily settled down with an Argentinian train driver.

Graham

Hack December 9, 2005 at 8:47 pm#25948

Graham, sad to say I never saw your uncle wrestle. In fact, I have to admit that the respect I have for him is now entirely due to the tributes of other members of this forum, particularly Anglo Italian. That alone, I think, justifies the forum and silences those who have in the past questioned the motives of the seniles. We are here only to show our respects.

I too would like to thank you for the generosity with which you are sharing your memories. I’d like to ask if your uncle ever passed opinions on the role he was asked to play on the wrestling circuit, which seemed to be the villain who usually lost to the lesser man. Did he ever want more recognition for his tremendous talent? Or was he, as I would suspect, a man above all that who had so many interests that he considered such things unimportant.

Did he ever seek recognition with a British or World title? Or did he share our opinion that titles were created to give a bit of glamour to lesser mortals than himself?

Finally, and on a more personal note. When did you realise that wrestling was not all it seemed? Was Alan open with you from an early age? What were your thoughts when you realised his losses were not always because he was wrestling a better man?

Thanks again, and as I think Anglo was too excited to answer Sax’s question then I will….yes, Christmas has come early.

Anglo Italian December 9, 2005 at 10:59 pm#25951

I think it’s great the way those who never saw Alan Garfield wrestle have managed to make such useful and ongoing input on here. Alan and Saxonwolf particularly. That’s not an easy situation and requires a deal of intelligence.

And they’re both northerners!

Thank you, Graham.

Now, is there anything we can do for you?

Hack December 9, 2005 at 11:40 pm#25953

Anglo Italian wrote:  And they’re both northerners!

But I’m the only real Northerner. Saxie is from Yorkshire

Graham December 10, 2005 at 1:32 am#25954

alanbamber wrote:I too would like to thank you for the generosity with which you are sharing your memories. I’d like to ask if your uncle ever passed opinions on the role he was asked to play on the wrestling circuit, which seemed to be the villain who usually lost to the lesser man. Did he ever want more recognition for his tremendous talent? Or was he, as I would suspect, a man above all that who had so many interests that he considered such things unimportant.

Don’t mention it – see later.

I don’t think he was ever asked to adopt that role, and winning or losing was not too important. His main objective was to put up an entertaining and exciting show for the crowd. He would often drop in on us in Penge on his way home from a bout for a cup of tea and a chat, and sometimes talk about the night’s show. “And then I … and they went berserk.” He knew that most of the audience loved him, and it was not unusual for someone who had been screaming for Mike Marino to tear his leg off and hit him with the wet end to come up to him on the way out and ask for an autograph. There was a down side though; he was stabbed in the ring, he had cigar buts stubbed out on his back, and there was a nasty incident in New York when a little old lady attacked him with her umbrella on the way back the dressing room. But that sort of incident was very isolated.

alanbamber wrote:Did he ever seek recognition with a British or World title? Or did he share our opinion that titles were created to give a bit of glamour to lesser mortals than himself?

No. I think if he had wanted them he would have invented them, and they would have become real.

alanbamber wrote:Finally, and on a more personal note. When did you realise that wrestling was not all it seemed? Was Alan open with you from an early age? What were your thoughts when you realised his losses were not always because he was wrestling a better man?

Well, I grew up with it. I think I was about six when he first took me to a bout, I don’t remember the exact location, but it was a Town Hall in North or West Londond. I sat with a wife of one of the other wrestlers, and have to admit that although I knew he was a ‘bad guy’ it upset me a little to hear all the booes. I want to stand up and shout “He’s not really bad!” And he wasn’t; he was a kind, generous, intelligent gentleman.



--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Graham December 10, 2005 at 1:47 am#25955

Anglo Italian wrote:Thank you, Graham.  Now, is there anything we can do for you?

You have already done it. When I was a kid I used to dine out on the fact that my uncle was Alan Garfield. And it’s happening all over again!

My son, Murray, who pointed me here, is positively glowing. Uncle really loved him. I remember one summer afternoon in the garden of the big house in Coper’s Cope Road when uncle was sitting on a folding chair in the garden, bouncing Murray (aged about 18 months) on his knee and making him laugh. He looked up at me with a huge grin and said “This boy’s got a sense of humour!”

We all used to laugh so much in those days, and the laughs were all different; uncle with his resonant guffaw, aunt Joan with her giggle, my mum’s was a sort of snort and my dad’s like Deputy Dawg. This has really taken me back to those happy times. Beats Blair’s Britain hands down!

 palais fan December 10, 2005 at 9:51 am#25956

Great stuff again Graham!

In addition to bringing (Sir)Alan Garfield, and the wrestling era of his time more alive for all of us, your comments about family life and laughter remind us all of the most important things in life.

I think you said you were a musician, can we buy your CDs anywhere? Perhaps you could provide a musical back-drop to next year’s British wrestlers’ Reunion at Wayne and Sarah Bridges’ pub in Kent? I am sure you would meet some contempories of your Uncle there.

I know your probably fed up reading it, but I must say “many thanks” again.

Saxonwolf December 10, 2005 at 10:38 am#25957

alanbamber wrote:

Did he ever seek recognition with a British or World title? Or did he share our opinion that titles were created to give a bit of glamour to lesser mortals than himself?

I think Alan Garfield held the British Empire Heavyweight title in the early 1960′s, beating Ray Hunter, who he lost it back to at a later date.

Saxonwolf December 10, 2005 at 10:42 am#25958

alanbamber wrote:

Anglo Italian wrote:

And they’re both northerners!

But I’m the only real Northerner. Saxie is from Yorkshire

Oi Alan, what happened to the season of goodwill and all that!!!!!

Saxonwolf December 10, 2005 at 10:49 am#25959

Graham, I have another question; How did your Uncle get his tours of the USA organised? Do you know ? Was it through any UK based promoter who had connections in the USA? I often wondered how wrestlers in years gone by, such as Bert Assirati and your Uncle Dudley/Alan Garfield lined up a series of bouts overseas. Maybe an american promoter had been to the UK and seen him wrestle? or maybe it was via someone like Paul Lincoln? Either way he was a pioneer and made a good name for himself.

Anglo Italian December 12, 2005 at 7:04 pm#26005

Graham wrote:No. I think if he had wanted titles he would have invented them, and they would have become real.

Isn’t that just a humdinger of a statement!

Hack December 13, 2005 at 11:48 pm#26037

Graham wrote:As a matter of interest, the two venues that were consided by Dale Martin to be the core of their operation were the Maidstone Corn Exchange and Beckenham Baths.

Beckenham Baths because that was the venue of Dale Martins very first promotion. Jack Dale topped the bill. Just think, if they’d lost money at that one it could have been the end of the business.

Anglo Italian December 12, 2005 at 7:04 pm#26005

Graham wrote:No. I think if he had wanted titles he would have invented them, and they would have become real.

Isn’t that just a humdinger of a statement!

Hack December 13, 2005 at 11:48 pm#26037

Graham wrote:As a matter of interest, the two venues that were consided by Dale Martin to be the core of their operation were the Maidstone Corn Exchange and Beckenham Baths.

Beckenham Baths because that was the venue of Dale Martins very first promotion. Jack Dale topped the bill. Just think, if they’d lost money at that one it could have been the end of the business.

Grizzled Veteran wrote:

In his tribute to Yorkshire, Alan Bamber mentioned Alf ˜Hooker" Rawlings and his son Bill, but unusually overlooked the other son Jim who was also a wrestler. The names jogged my memory of a unique, at that time, team match. So new I actually wrote the rules and results down on a separate piece of paper to make sure I had got it right.

Our hero the Turbulent One was at the height of his powers at the time and I had seen him for the first time in October 1958 where in an ˜All Australian" match he had defeated Ray Hunter by 2/1. Then in November he defeated the interestingly named ‘Tarzan’ Taborda the Idol of Portugal also by 2/1. Garfield won both those contests by submissions.

On a side issue the latter contest was on a bill in a series held regularly at Eltham Baths in South East London. This venue was deep in the heart of Dale Martin territory but promoted by Norman Morrell using regular DM wrestlers, but no acknowledgement of DM on program.

In April 1959 it was announce that the Rawlings family were in town with a Tag Team Challenge with a side stake of £50 (a lot of money then!) to be given away at ringside if they lost!

The Team that answered the challenge was Alan Garfield, Gori Ed Mongotich, and Tibor Szakacs. An interesting combination two heels with what we now know was the fairly newly arrived Tibor.

Although revolutionary at the time the rules were much as we would now expect. Three individual contests followed by a three man tag match. However bear in mind that at this time I had never seen or heard of a tag match!

In the individual contests; Alf pinned Mangotich, and Alan and Tibor pinned Jim and Bill respectively. So the Rawlings trailed 2 to 1.

Going into the tag Alan extracted submissions from both Bill and Jim in fairly quick succession. So the Rawlings now trailed 4 to 1! Some of the audience were probably already mentally counting the money.

Then Alf entered the fray and k.o.d both Mangotich and Tibor, I seem to recall his favourite finisher was the piledriver. So it was now 4 to 3!

It was now Alf and Alan and after a flurry of action Alf gained a submission.

So; 4 to 4 the next score must be the winner.

But to everyone’s disappointment Alan refused to continue on his own and the Rawlings were declared the winners.

For the record in the opening contest Don Branch beat Reg Ray 2 to 1 in seven rounds.

Someone replied: December 28, 2005 at 11:25 pm#26392

A really interesting posting Grizzly, thanks for that.

I was interested to note Eltham Baths as a Morrell hall. Some time ago I mentioned that Lime Grove Baths were also run by Norman Morrell. Many doubts were cast on this, but Tony St Clair eventually came to my defence. Glad to see Norman Morrell also waved the flag elsewhere in foreign parts. Bloody southerners wouldn’t have had a look in up North!

????? January 4, 2006 at 6:11 pm#26594

Great memory Grizzled Veteran.

I have just stumbled across this and a few others like it.

For my money a superb bill, with Alan Garfield vs Rocky Wall (mistakenly) neither top nor bottom. A heavy Welsh bias but never mind.

This was the controlled early seventies matchmaking, with weights being relevant, that added seriousness to the sport. BEFORE the days where everything went Catchweight Galore.

I would suspect the promoters here felt obliged to give value for money as none of the Big Five were billed.

Hope you all enjoy it as much as I did finding it!

Not a bad night out for 14/-.

I wouldn’t begrudge Street and Maxine top of the bill status, but I do think that good heavyweights did get a raw deal in the sixties and seventies. Maybe it was the advent of television that made everyone look the same size.

Anglo  January 4, 2006 at 11:32 pm#26620

This must have been John Naylor’s first night out darn sarf.

I wonder if he stood by the dressing room door to watch Alan Garfield in action?

This is a surprising link between the fifties/sixties and the modern era.

Why did southern promoters get northerners down just for them to be on against each other? Kellett vs Graham was a regular; Dennison vs Naylor here; and of course later on England vs Patton.

Same happened in reverse with the Wells/Kowalski/Bruno/Wilson quartet all travelling off together only to come home to be next door neighbours again.

Was it really so daunting to face an unknown opponent?

?????? January 5, 2006 at 12:00 am#26624

I’m sure he did, Anglo Italian.

Another interesting thought about the Dennison/Naylor match, although I wouldn’t have said it was a common occurrence the other way round.

These wrestlers we talk about were professionals. They had skill and were more than capable of putting on good matches with unfamiliar opponents, and did so often enough. I think the answer may not be too deep. It comes back to lazy matchmaking. They knew that they would get a good match from them and didn’t have the imagination to put on more attractive bouts.

The other possibility is that the more Northerners you could get in a car the less would be the expenses paid out by dale Martin

???? Unknown poster January 10, 2006 at 6:20 pm#26736

Alan Garfield a couple of months before he stopped wrestling for Joint Promotions, but look at the name of the promoter:

Garfield would have performed better as top-of-the-bill as he would have risen to the occasion.

???? Unknown poster  January 10, 2006 at 8:37 pm#26741

Symptom of the time. Marino, Yearsley and Garfield were all old men.

Reason no.23 why it all went wrong

Anglo  February 26, 2006 at 12:39 am#28043

Discussing Brighton elsewehere, Alan Garfield’s top-of-the-bill bout there against Ricki Starr in April 1963 drew a record crowd.

He was clearly the making of Starr amongst others.

Have we lost Graham to the curse of private messaging? Blood ties as a nephew are clearly important; being a loyal fan obviously lasts.

Old David  March 21, 2006 at 12:53 pm#28793

This thread seems to have gone quiet recently so I thought that everone (especially Anglo) would appreciate a new posting.

This very old photo of ‘Sir Alan’ was taken back in the very early 1950′s (possibly earlier) and shows him as a young and handsome adonis.

I know which Alan Garfield I preferred!




--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Anglo Italian March 22, 2006 at 5:29 pm#28846

Quite outstanding resource once again Old David!

Garfield seems to have had several careers: weightlifter, bodybuilder, wrestler.

Not to mention the cars!

Saxonwolf March 23, 2006 at 8:31 am#28865

Anglo Italian wrote:

Have we lost Graham to the curse of private messaging? Blood ties as a nephew are clearly important; being a loyal fan obviously lasts.

I was wondering the same thing Anglo, wonder why he suddenly stopped coming on here?

And as for Old David’s picture, well once again Mr Garfield seems ahead of his time with the heavily muscled look.

Old David March 24, 2006 at 10:24 am#28896

I find it interesting looking and the amazing muscularity of this photo that by the time I was watching Alan Garfield in the 1960′s he did not work as a ‘muscleman’ or a ‘strongman’ type of wrestler at all.

His style by the 1960′s did not emphasises strength at all and the muscle tone had ‘faded’.

He was a ‘rugged old timer’ like Roy ‘Bull’ Davis, Jim Hussey, or Hans Streiger; but with of course that special Alan Garfield charisma.

Anglo Italian March 31, 2006 at 7:58 pm#29145

Interesting points from you both. The bodybuilder look is now aligned very closely with US pro wrestling, and maybe Garfield was (one of) the first to exploit it here. Top bodybuilders make top-of-the-bill wrestlers. Not necessarily good, but top-of-the-bill.

Most British bodybuilder types like Spencer Chruchill, Aaron Stone, John Lees and later Johnny England failed to make top of the bill status in the 50s and 60s. Bodybuilding is all about posing, whereas wrestling requires action. Steve Viedor was probably the most successful, but even he took a long while to peak in the ring.

Garfield obviously applied his cerebral powers to working out what an audience wanted to see … or be horrified by.

He also realised that bodybuilding and wrestling fans were far removed.

Look at the big name contemporaries of his and you won’t find a bodybuilder among them, Les Kellett and Mick McManus spring strikingly to mind.

So Alan Garfield was indeed a visionary in this respect, amongst others.

Old David June 9, 2006 at 2:43 pm#31031

I think it must be time to revive this old favourite!

I was looking through my old magazines recently when I found this very interesting pair of articles dated from the early 1960′s and covering in some detail ‘Sir’ Alan’s huge success in America.

Lots of interesting detail here to add to our growing knowledge of this great oldtimer.

Interesting to note that one of the articles is written by none other than a certain John Freemantle, Mr. Premier Promotions.

Enjoy the read.



Saxonwolf June 10, 2006 at 9:56 am#31036

Many thanks for this old david, absolutely fascinating stuff, I always enjoy reading about our lads abroad.

Hack June 10, 2006 at 10:17 pm#31044

Yes, magnificent findings Old David, you’re contributions are always great.

For me this is probably the most intriguing of our topics. Okay, we’ve traced Bartelli and Kendo, but we already recognised their position in wrestling history. For myself, though, and I guess quite a few others, this topic has been a complete revelation. When I watched wrestling all those years ago not for one minute did I realise the significance of Alan Garfield and give him the credit he was due. For many of us the main aim of contributing to the forum is to give some acknowledgement and offer our respect to all the Mounteavns performers.

I think this topic alone fulfils that aim.

My contributions have been minimal, as I didn’t he see the man, and so I thank the rest of you who have offered so much.

Neil Sands June 11, 2006 at 2:09 pm#31050

I've been reading this thread on Alan Garfield ( or Dudley as he was affectionately known) with great interest and lots of happy memories.

I was very fortunate to see him live for the first time at East Ham Granada on a Paul Lincoln Extravaganza against Ricki Starr. I have no idea of the date I am sure someone here will know. I think it was Ricki's first trip to the UK, there had been a piece about him on the television evening news, which was surprising because he wasn't working for the TV promoters.

Just to digress for a second at one time Ricki held the box office record at Madison Sq. Garden for his match with the late Gorilla Monsoon, so he really was a huge draw.

For someone who was used to watching the Dale Martin shows live and on TV the Paul Lincoln show was very exciting, I think it was also the first time I saw the Cortez Brothers who to relate to another thread here were for me the best tag team ever, and Jon pound for pound just about one of the best workers ever.

The match was amazing although I guess at the time was far more impressed with Ricki Starr than the Turbulent One.

My views on him changed the first time I ever worked with him. It was at Manor Place Baths in South London, for Al Hollamby. I guess around 1972. This skinny young Essex boys first ever match in the Big Time!

Hack June 11, 2006 at 2:44 pm#31052

Wow!

Fantastic memories Neil. Wonderful to get an insiders perspective on a great wrestler. Thanks for sharing them with us, and putting me right (in the nicest possible way)

Anglo Italian June 11, 2006 at 5:07 pm#31053

That most recent article posted by Old David was from July 1963.

palais fan June 11, 2006 at 7:00 pm#31058

Great post from Neil – yet again.

If you put Neil’s postings together from this forum – there is the makings of a good book! I for one would buy it. Assuming Neil is up for it, any chance of Neil teaming up with one of you professional writers, who contribute to this forum, and putting a book together based on Neils life/wrestling memories?

Anglo Italian June 12, 2006 at 12:05 am#31061

I have now unearthed Alan Garfield’s real surname. Should I be posting that?

Given that the final tv opponent we have listed was Jumping Jim Hussey in September 1961, and we assume that this would have been the bout where Garfield offended Kent Walton for a final and unpardoned time, and considering Jumping Jim is going to the reunion in a couple of months time, it would be good for someone to target him there with the specific question of whether he remembers that bout and particularly any real controversy. Is anyone up for that task?

Thanks for posting that article Old David, one of the most informative pieces of its kind.

Saxonwolf June 12, 2006 at 8:48 am#31066

Neil Sands wrote:I think it was also the first time I saw the Cortez Brothers who to relate to another thread here were for me the best tag team ever, and Jon pound for pound just about one of the best workers ever.

I realise that this is a thread about the groundbreaking wrestler Alan Garfield, of whom I knew virtually nothing until this thread started, but I have to chip in and say that I agree with Neil Sands when he comments on Jon Cortez. Until recently, without the use of video tapes or TV repeats, Jon Cortez was a name that I remembered, but not much else. Now, with TWC showing World of Sports matches, I have realised that this was one of the most skillful men I have ever seen, an incredible wrestler who looked every inch the perfect athlete. His match with Keith Haward that was shown recently was so realistic, even I was left wondering how much had been worked and how much was a shoot, it looked that good.

Old David June 12, 2006 at 10:12 am#31069

I am so pleased that the article posted on Friday has triggered off such a wonderful week-end about a man who is fast becoming the “Seniles' Hero”.

All of us who can remember him (wrestlers & fans) seem to have such joyful memories. It seems a tragedy that none of his flawless ringwork seems to exist on film for others to enjoy.

I am beginning to feel really priviledged to have seen him ‘in action live’ so many times over the years.

Before I sign off I would like to repeat everybodys thanks to Neil for the time and effort he takes with his postings. They are an absolute joy for us ‘oldies’ to read and always bring the memories flooding back to us.

Thank you again Neil.

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Anglo Italian August 21, 2006 at 4:40 pm#32772

Latest research from Ray indicates several more tv appearances and much later than we had previously imagined:

31st August 1963 seemingly top of a Wembley bill versus Steve Viedor.

3rd or 4th November 1964 versus Earl Maynard at Croydon.

3rd April as late as 1965 Alan Garfield lost to Gwyn Davies. This was top-of-the bill in a six-bout Bradford bill. This now narrows the target down to that final tv appearance to unearth what Garfield may have done or said to upset Kent Walton and draw to a premature end his tv exposure.

However, he had already become a once-a-year man so maybe the banishment was gradual and based on earlier misdemeanours.

Nice to know that this villain of the ring was also a verbal baddie for real!

Anglo Italian September 16, 2006 at 8:39 pm#33457


Old David September 17, 2006 at 11:04 am#33468

Welcome back Anglo, some great postings from you in the last few days but this article has to be the best.




It perfectly sums up our ’Seniles' Idol’ and it reminds us of why ‘Sir’ Alan Garfield was one of British wrestling’s true legends.

Let us all keep the candle alight for him!

Patriot September 17, 2006 at 12:03 pm#33470

He was a little before my time so I haven’t really followed this thread but I do have an article on Alan from a 1963 US magazine which I have posted here. I hope Sir Alan’s fans find this interesting. Sorry the text is a little small, I scanned it larger but Photobucket size limitations have shrunk it a little.

palais fan September 17, 2006 at 7:14 pm#33477

I wonder if the promoters on the otherside of the Atlantic remembered Sir Alan’s ‘Bulldog’ line when Davey Boy and Dynamite were looking for a gimmick?

Anglo Italian September 18, 2006 at 9:35 am#33485

That’s a tremendous find, Patriot.

Of all the articles we have seen it is perhaps the most surprising.

It includes some facts that were not public knowledge in the UK at the time, like being from Beckenham, when in UK he was billed from Sydney or London. Beckenham was very specific and we now know 100% accurate.

It includes the major surprise that Alan Garfield wrestled clean in the USA.

No mention of weightlifting, and I am wondering about the war hero bit.

Incredibly liberated language in Profumo’s 1963 to use the word “sexually”, hardly ever written in a wrestling context.

And it includes baloney galore, from knighthoods to British Heavyweight Championships … at least that bit seemed like baloney until the detail of a five year reign emerged, taking the title from Dennis Mitchell.

There must have been something in that, he wouldn’t have plucked Mitchell’s name from thin air.

Maybe the results compilers can get their teeth into this. My only humble thought would be that Dennis Mitchell won the RAH trophy in 1957 (some say 1956); perhaps Garfield beat him somewhere soon afterwards and based his baloney on this, as the time would fit. Or perhaps there was independent bout somewhere?

Just when we thought we knew it all!

One final thought, the name of the author looks like a near anagram of Al Garfield, maybe he wrote the text himself as a press release prior to the second tour?

So, Patriot, that’s why I thank you for a tremendous find.

 

Old David September 18, 2006 at 9:49 am#33486

Thanks Patriot, another marvellous article!

It is amazing to read such a fictionalized biography stated as if it was all fact!

So he really was SIR Alan Garfield! How many of us knew about that heroic war record? How many of us can remember his long reign as British Heavyweight Champion?

How cleverly they have mixed up this pure fiction with real names like Dennis Mitchell, Georges Gordienko and Bert Assirati. They even mention some truths (like his love of antiques and old cars) and weave it all into a wonderful Mary Poppins

Anglo Italian September 18, 2006 at 10:19 am#33487

Hah, Great Minds and all that, Old David!

Thanks for your earlier comments, by the way, it’s always good to know someone is enjoying the work.

The more I read Patriot’s article, the more I am convinced Al Goldfarb was Alan Garfield himself.

Patriot September 20, 2006 at 4:15 pm#33514

Glad you liked the Garfield article guys – a superb blend of fact and English characterture I thought. Some interesting wrestling chat mixed with tea and crumpets, British tommies, King and Country!!

Cheerio!

Hack November 3, 2006 at 12:18 am#34516

This thread in itself makes forum life worthwhile. And I didn’t even see the fellah.

Saxonwolf November 3, 2006 at 2:32 pm#34527

I agree Hack, never knew anything about him until this, makes great reading.

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Old David November 22, 2006 at 9:42 pm#34820

That old back room has revealed yet another article on our old favourite.

November 1966 – The Wrestler – The GREAT Alan Garfield



This should put him back on top, where he belongs!

John shelvey November 23, 2006 at 9:00 am#34826

Looking at the George Gordienko results site, I noticed that in the Pedro Morales section these were noted :

MORALES DREW ALAN GARFIELD (25/6/62 Vancouver B.C.)

MORALES DREW ALAN GARFIELD (30/6/62 Victoria B.C.)

MORALES WON ALAN GARFIELD (16/7/62 Vancouver B.C.)

Around this time Alan’s tag partner, Oliver Winrush also had 4 x matches against Morales, winning 3 of them. I haven’t thought of this question for many, many years; who was Oliver Winrush? (By the way that site seems to have a million results and I’m sure a retired or extremely lazy person with time on their hands would be able to turn up some more on Alan. Hint hint)

Cheers, John, ends.

Anglo Italian November 23, 2006 at 11:37 am#34829

…….. hint taken!

Nice research John. Your logic tells us that Oliver Winrush would have been superior to Alan Garfield.

But when did logic ever have anything to do with pro wrestling?

Anyways, can you please tell me the site you are referring to. Thanks.

Saxonwolf November 23, 2006 at 8:21 pm#34833

Apparently, Oliver Winrush was a british wrestler who went under the name of “Tinker Todd”, all new to me!!!!

“…A native of London, England, Tinker Todd came to the United States in 1952 and continued a professional wrestling career that had taken him all over Europe. Tinker became a fixture in the Carolinas during the heyday of Jim Crockett Sr….For twenty-seven years, I was known as Tinker Todd, Ray St. Clair, Oliver Winrush, and many other names…”

Saxonwolf November 24, 2006 at 12:10 pm#34846

Here is more, the highlights of an interview that appeared in a subscription magazine in the USA called “Whatever happened to…..?”

Sir Alan Garfield and Jack Pye get a mention.

TINKER TODD

Serving in the C4 Highlanders

Wrestling amateur in London, England

Wrestling in Singapore

Wrestling as Mr. Question Mark

Boxing in the British Army

Gama vs Dara Singh

The Chinese bandit

A grenade thrown at ringside

Black marketeering in Singapore

Babe Sharkey and Jim Crockett

Training at Bothner’s Gym in New York City

Harold Sakata, aka Tosh Togo

A mouth full of marbles

Sir Alan Garfield

Al Costello and the Fabulous Kangaroos

The origins of Tinker Todd

Favorite moves and holds

Happy Humphrey and the gorilla

George and Bobby Becker

Greg Valentine learns a lesson

Wrestling as Mr. X

Mil Mascaras gets a wrestling lesson

Blind in the ring

The Great Bolo

Black Jack Pye

Bill Lewis exposes the business

The Two Stooges

Toilet paper in Luke Brown’s bugle

Frank Hickey

Breaking Ric Flair into the business

John shelvey November 26, 2006 at 6:53 am#34883

Hi Anglo!

If you google ”KM KAYFABEE MEMORIES” you should get there. I was driving home yesterday and Tinker Todd came into mind I remember reading his columns in the web-site ”1 wrestlinglegends.com” and Winrush was one of many names he went by.Cheers, John, ends.

Anglo Italian November 26, 2006 at 4:26 pm#34894

Thank you John.

What a site, I have just dipped in for half an hour and got very waylaid, couldn’t find anything about Gordienko or Garfield but had fun browsing around!

Patriot November 27, 2006 at 5:28 pm#34907

A 1969 Garfield feature for his many fans!


Regards

Rog

Old David January 6, 2007 at 2:26 pm#35480

I think that this fabulous thread must be nearing its conclusion because material on our old hero must be all but ‘used up’.

I have however found one more article on ‘Sir Alan’ that I do not think has been posted yet.

Here is is – The Wrestler from February 1966.

Let us take one more opportunity to salute the geat man!



palais fan January 7, 2007 at 12:25 pm#35496

As I have said before I am one of Sir Alan’s big fans from the old days. The heat he generated simply by the way he arrogantly presented and conducted himself before the first bell sounded was something to behold.

I love the description of the match aqainst Roy Bull Davis. These two guys were regulars at the Wimbledon Palais and to think of them matched against one another reminds me of why we seniles enjoyed the grappling game so much.

Just putting my nosey head on… do we know whether he earned his living soley from the wrestling ring? We know he was a man with a wide range of interests and had a good family life, did he have other business interests?


NB Discussion only stopped due to the sudden demise of the website, not for lack of interest from those involved.


--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 21, 2012 at 2:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
Moderator
Posts: 858

Bloomin' marvelous Anglo Italian.

You kept a copy of this thread for all those years? Got anything else hidden away on your hard drive?

Seriously, thank you very much.

It is a very long thread but I do hope that all those new to our forum take time to read through it. It really is a demonstration of Fanpower, where we led each other through the darkness to discover some remarkable revelations. It's also clear that the contributions of Saxonwolf and myself, who both admitted to having little to offer, did help move the revelations along. That's why it is important that everyone who reads the Heritage forum should have a go at contributing; just one little comment can spark off new set of discoveries.

This thread was one of a handful that were important to me when I rekindled an interest in wrestling that had been hidden deep away in the memory for twenty five years. As Anglo Italian knows, I read the 1 Stop forum for weeks thinking I had nothing to say. I made a few comments about Jack Dempsey and Jack Pye, received a bit of encouragement, and I was away.

I really did believe I had seen Garfield on tv and not been impressed (just another southerner) but I know that I was mistaken. Believe me, due to the collective contributions of everyone who participated in this thread I am now a fervent Alan Garfield fan; even though I definitely didn't see him!

I'm sure that our new readers can find new avenues of exploration from this thread, I certainly hope I can. It will take us a bit of time to take it all in, so be patient with us Anglo Italian.

It was a relief to find that I had introduced the word Heritage!

 

March 21, 2012 at 6:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Dave Sutherland
Member
Posts: 176

What a truly fascinating piece this has been and the further I read it the more that I was convinced that I had a piece of extra information only to almost get to the end when it was announced that he did appear on television in 1963 against Steve Viedor (or Steve Bell as he was sometimes called then). That was the only time that I saw Alan Garfield in action and I thought that he adapted well to television and played his part brilliantly giving the impression that it was almost beneath him to be taking part in the contest. He was very vocal too and on one occasion when the referee asked Viedor did he want to submit from the armlock he had on him, when Viedor refused Garfield declared “right, I’ll break it then!”

Kent Walton made reference to the vintage cars and claimed that he had originally come to London from Australia.

Meanwhile on the subject of him appearing in the North, just a couple of weeks after that bout he was billed to appear at St James, Newcastle in a bill topper against one of our major heavyweights (possibly Albert Wall) but I can’t remember whether he turned up or not (I’m sure that Ray Plunkett will know) I do know that I wasn’t there that night but I was quite excited about him coming again but he never did.

I was always under the impression that he had retired about then but obviously from the above articles I was wrong.

--

 Wrestling Heritage Walton Award

Wrestling Heritage Starr Award

March 21, 2012 at 6:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

I Pringle heavy middleweight champion
Member
Posts: 111

Choppington chicken here.

Hi all, Re Dave Sutherland regarding Alan Garfield wrestling at St. James Hall Newcastle.Dave was correct  that AG did not appear on the night advertised. His opponent should have been Norman Walsh date was 5th. OCT. 1963. Subsitute was a Martin Borman whoever he was . Can anyone throw any light on him. He did a few bouts for Morrell at this timme.

Regards to all.

--


March 22, 2012 at 4:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 906

Great stuff Dave and you have successfully picked up the thread in 2012, not only running with it but adding to it intriguingly.


At last some memories of Alan Garfield on television.  Quite how you can recall comments from 1963 in such detail is remarkable - he clearly made a big impression.  And it all fits in so well.


A few days ago on another thread I asked palais fan for memories of a Steve Viedor feud with Alan  Garfield centred around Wimbledon Palais.  We'll just wait a little while for Palais Fan to return, but there's a story there to tell.


Either side of that 1964 feud, Garfield and Viedor wrestled each other many times and from 1966 Viedor always won.  Mind you, Garfield never did bother much with results.


(Hack:  notice how this long thread still doesn't run to a second page!  Clearly based on post count not length.)


--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

March 22, 2012 at 4:30 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
Member
Posts: 1172

Thanks Anglo, I will read that when I have time. As far as I can remember I only saw Alan Garfield once at Newcastle. I don't remember anything about it ,so  obviously I was not too impressed. Perhaps he grew on you and you needed to see him more than once to appreciate his work.   Bernard.

March 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
Member
Posts: 1172

Just a P.S. to the above,according to Ray's records, this must have been 1/11/52 when a certain Mr Alan Garfield knocked out Don Mendoza,and I don't remember much about him either. sorry Anglo.   Bernard.

March 22, 2012 at 11:40 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dave Sutherland
Member
Posts: 176

Oddly enough when thinking of Alan Garfield’s prospective opponent I very nearly said either Albert Wall or Norman Walsh and either of those matches would serve as a real treat. As I said I did not get along to the Hall that particular night (I had just left school and started work in Newcastle so I was still acclimatising to becoming a young adult) but I could just imagine being well disappointed at the non-appearance of Alan Garfield especially as he was replaced by Martin Borman. The saving grace I suppose was at that time Borman (as opposed to Martin Bormann) was an unknown quantity to St James Hall but in retrospect he was no direct substitute for Garfield and in all honesty he was in no way fit to be in the same ring as Norman Walsh. I saw him a few weeks later as an undercard wrestler against a young Donald Mitchell who was making his North East debut that night and Borman was disqualified for kneeing Mitchell in the groin midway through the match. I can’t remember him returning to Newcastle again and I certainly didn’t see him if he did.

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March 22, 2012 at 12:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
Member
Posts: 1172

Hi Anglo. Got your moniker right this time. I'm just alittle way through the Alan Garfield speel. Very Interesting, you must have loved him. Just 2 quick points that might interest you on sub- matters.

Rex Harrison  is mentioned in one of your posts. I once asked Norman Walsh why Rex was so well developed from the waist up but weak on his legs. This was why any leghold often brought a submission. I was told that Rex spent his developing years in the Merchant Navy and its hard to lift weights on a rolling ship so most of his work was done on a bench.Hence his great upper body development.

Secondly, the wonderful photo of Alan Garfield was taken by Lanza. Now I don't know if this is a professional studio who specialise in wrestlers and body builders but most of the 10x12 in.  black and white photos that I gave to St. James' Hall for the dressing room corridor were by Lanza.    Small world ,   isn't it?

Just thought that you might be interested.    Bernard.

March 22, 2012 at 1:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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