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frank thomas
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Posts: 1532

powerlock at May 2, 2018 at 9:34 AM

David Mantell at May 2, 2018 at 1:17 AM

Maybe, but you CAN see what the fuss was all about from that match.

A lot of credit in this match should go to Blackjack, he made George look good
Jack was one of that trustworthy band who made everybody look good, I saw him meet opponents from Rev Michael Brooks, to Kung Fu, and Harvey Smith, a generous seller who's job was to make the "good guy look good" as I've said before on the forum, I can't recall seeing him win a match, and it was only on about the third or fourth time I saw him, get a pinfall!
May 2, 2018 at 3:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

John
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Posts: 140
I have this George Kidd v Black Jack Mulligan bout on DVD and I love watching it. I think George Kidd is great in it. Black Jack Mulligan does unselfishly sell his moves very well, as he did against all his opponents but not many of his opponents looked as good as George Kidd does in this bout, so much credit must go to George Kidd. George Kidd was clearly a bit overweight and watching it makes me wonder how great he must have been in his peak years..
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Heavy-Middleweight Championship Belt Holder

May 2, 2018 at 4:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
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Posts: 2511

powerlock at May 2, 2018 at 9:34 AM

David Mantell at May 2, 2018 at 1:17 AM

Maybe, but you CAN see what the fuss was all about from that match.

A lot of credit in this match should go to Blackjack, he made George look good

Mulligan deserves credit for his part in the match, but he couldn't have done that with just any old fool.  He does a grand job of looking befuddled and getting confused by all of Kidd's tricks, but it's Kidd who came up with those tricks in the first place and was able to excecute them and knew when to use them for maximum impact on the audience.

This sort of reminds me of the debate about Kendo from some time back on here/FB where people were saying "it takes two to tango"  - and then making out that Kendo looking good was entirely down to his opponents.  It does take two to tango, but those two has to include the first one.

May 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
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Posts: 1370

David Mantell at May 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM

powerlock at May 2, 2018 at 9:34 AM

David Mantell at May 2, 2018 at 1:17 AM

Maybe, but you CAN see what the fuss was all about from that match.

A lot of credit in this match should go to Blackjack, he made George look good

Mulligan deserves credit for his part in the match, but he couldn't have done that with just any old fool.  He does a grand job of looking befuddled and getting confused by all of Kidd's tricks, but it's Kidd who came up with those tricks in the first place and was able to excecute them and knew when to use them for maximum impact on the audience.

This sort of reminds me of the debate about Kendo from some time back on here/FB where people were saying "it takes two to tango"  - and then making out that Kendo looking good was entirely down to his opponents.  It does take two to tango, but those two has to include the first one.

George needed a certain type of opponent in that match, someone who was also extremely skilled and used to working in a number of styles. I wonder who else that was around at that time who was a heel could have worked so well with George. I can think of maybe two at that weight Zoltan Boscic and Jim Breaks
May 2, 2018 at 6:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
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Posts: 2511

Why a heel? A clean match would have just as easily (if not better) displayed George's skills.

May 3, 2018 at 2:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
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Posts: 1370
It was a heel/face match I am staying with the scenario set by the promoter hence my choice. Yes there was a number of faces available that could have given George a good match but the crowd,Kent and the tv audience were behind George before the bout started which was what the promoter surely wanted. Would it have been the same in a face match maybe not.
May 3, 2018 at 4:06 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
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Posts: 2415

I don't know who was around "at that time", but in his earlier years George Kidd would make a good match against almost anyone providing that they were not too heavy.

And there were a lot of good boys around his weight in the 50's anyway

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May 3, 2018 at 12:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
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Posts: 2079

Since that was Geo. Kidd's final tv bout, and after a tv absence of about 6 years, and also since George was a promoter, I would imagine he chose carfeully his opponent for that bout.


All the more credit to Jack/Larry.

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Still trying to work out what was going on!

May 3, 2018 at 4:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
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Posts: 2511

I can understand where people are coming from with this - someone whose only experience of Johnny Saint is his bouts in the early 2010s for the Chikara promotion in the US would still think him an agile and brilliantly skilled wrestling genius - even if to most of Us Lot, his performances in those final bouts are a pale shadow of what he could do even as late as circa 1996..

Credit is due to Johnny Saint, George Kidd and Tommy Moore/Jack Dempsey for, even in their respective old ages, being able to do stuff that many guys in their physical primes would struggle to achieve mentally or physically.

May 3, 2018 at 5:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
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Posts: 1370

David Mantell at May 3, 2018 at 5:57 PM

I can understand where people are coming from with this - someone whose only experience of Johnny Saint is his bouts in the early 2010s for the Chikara promotion in the US would still think him an agile and brilliantly skilled wrestling genius - even if to most of Us Lot, his performances in those final bouts are a pale shadow of what he could do even as late as circa 1996..

Credit is due to Johnny Saint, George Kidd and Tommy Moore/Jack Dempsey for, even in their respective old ages, being able to do stuff that many guys in their physical primes would struggle to achieve mentally or physically.

Although I got to see the first two ol never got the chance to Moore or Dempsey. It's really hard to compare when there is literally no footage or you were just the wrong age to see them at their height. George Kidd's name alone provoked excitement when it appeared on a bill because he was so unique in what he did, likewise the others so seeing them stepping into the ring when their wrestling careers were coming to an end was a thrill for fans
May 4, 2018 at 3:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
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Posts: 2511

Tommy Moore/Jack Dempsey were one and the same person (Tommy Moore was his legal name, Jack Dempsey his ringname.)


There's no footage in circulation of Tommy/Jack wrestling professionally but there is footage, in the First Tuesday: The Wigan Hold documentary filmed in 1988 and screened in early '89 of him and Ernie Riley, both in their late sixties, wrestling each other on the mat at the original Riley's Gym building in Pike Street, a couple of years before the Gym move to Aspull.  Both men were in exceptionally good shape - never mind "for their age," they woulod have put a lot of much younger people to shame  - and both of them could clearly still move around really effectively on the mat, take bumps and spring back up again..


(Admittedly, Tommy's motiviation for keeping himself fighting fit at age 68 was to combat the symptoms of arthritis which was incipient in him and would otherwise take hold. "IWhen I get up, I do these exercises and for the rest of the day I feel champion.")

May 4, 2018 at 4:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
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Posts: 1370

David Mantell at May 4, 2018 at 4:45 AM

Tommy Moore/Jack Dempsey were one and the same person (Tommy Moore was his legal name, Jack Dempsey his ringname.)


There's no footage in circulation of Tommy/Jack wrestling professionally but there is footage, in the First Tuesday: The Wigan Hold documentary filmed in 1988 and screened in early '89 of him and Ernie Riley, both in their late sixties, wrestling each other on the mat at the original Riley's Gym building in Pike Street, a couple of years before the Gym move to Aspull.  Both men were in exceptionally good shape - never mind "for their age," they woulod have put a lot of much younger people to shame  - and both of them could clearly still move around really effectively on the mat, take bumps and spring back up again..


(Admittedly, Tommy's motiviation for keeping himself fighting fit at age 68 was to combat the symptoms of arthritis which was incipient in him and would otherwise take hold. "IWhen I get up, I do these exercises and for the rest of the day I feel champion.")

Like I said didn't have the pleasure of seeing Dempsey and didn't pick up the second name so presumed it to be another wrestler, easily done. I know how important exercise is as I have chronic osteoarthritis in both knees, so I do non impact exercise coupled with natural anti inflammatory treatment, trying to keep going as long as I can before having knee replacements.
May 4, 2018 at 5:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
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Posts: 2415

Isaw Jack Dempsey and he was worth watching.

Quite dour , a bit like Alan Colbeck, but they both knew their way round a ring and both of them usually got the job done in the 1950's.

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May 4, 2018 at 12:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

david franklin
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Posts: 286

Bernard Hughes at May 4, 2018 at 12:03 PM

Isaw Jack Dempsey and he was worth watching.

Quite dour , a bit like Alan Colbeck, but they both knew their way round a ring and both of them usually got the job done in the 1950's.

The perfect description of Jack Dempsey (and Alan Colbeck) Bernard,. It was guys like them that made wrestling so credible when I was first hooked back in the 1950's and 1960's.
Jack Dempsey featured in one of my all time favourite matches that I remember even today. It was at a small cinema in Westbury and he did a 10x5 minute round draw with Joe Murphy that was exactly what professional wrestling should be about.

May 5, 2018 at 3:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
Member
Posts: 1370

david franklin at May 5, 2018 at 3:15 AM

Bernard Hughes at May 4, 2018 at 12:03 PM

Isaw Jack Dempsey and he was worth watching.

Quite dour , a bit like Alan Colbeck, but they both knew their way round a ring and both of them usually got the job done in the 1950's.

The perfect description of Jack Dempsey (and Alan Colbeck) Bernard,. It was guys like them that made wrestling so credible when I was first hooked back in the 1950's and 1960's.
Jack Dempsey featured in one of my all time favourite matches that I remember even today. It was at a small cinema in Westbury and he did a 10x5 minute round draw with Joe Murphy that was exactly what professional wrestling should be about.

I always enjoyed watching Alan Colbeck. Extremely skilful and knew it, always looked comfortable in the ring, lacking a bit of charisma which is a pity as with that he could well have reached greater heights than he did
May 5, 2018 at 7:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
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Posts: 2415

That's true Power.

You would have thought that the promoters or referees would have told him.

Or perhaps they did and he didn't want to know.

He could certainly wrestle though, but with nothing on the charisma side, he needed an extrovert to make the bout really enjoyable.

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May 5, 2018 at 8:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Hack
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Posts: 2603

I was a big fan of Dempsey but never took to Colbeck. Why? Maybe it's the Red Rose blood in me. I would like to see Colbeck again. Given another chance, who knows?

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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

May 5, 2018 at 5:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

frank thomas
Member
Posts: 1532
Alan Colbeck always struck as a dour wrestler, believe he tagged with Jackie Pallo for a time, a strange alliance!
May 5, 2018 at 8:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

PETER
Member
Posts: 509
Saw him in a match with Adrian Street-from one extreme to the other
June 9, 2018 at 7:17 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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