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Hack
Moderator
Posts: 2603

There's an article in Pakistan Today

https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2018/01/05/the-great-gama-and-lahore/


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British wrestling - great characters but the plot was always a bit of a mystery.

January 5, 2018 at 4:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Bernard Hughes
Member
Posts: 2415

Some write up!

Do we think that it just might be a little exagerated?

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January 5, 2018 at 4:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 1123

i remember his trip to UK. at wembley town hall early 60's he fought josef kovacs and won in 2 straight submissions. no exageration

--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

January 5, 2018 at 8:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SaxonWolf
Member
Posts: 1874

Bernard Hughes at January 5, 2018 at 4:55 PM

Some write up!

Do we think that it just might be a little exagerated?

I think they may be bending the truth somewhat Bernard.


The world record for the Deadlift (basically lifting a heavily loaded bar from the floor so it is parallel just above the knees) is around 500kg.......


"...Can you imagine lifting two baby elephants together? Well, this might sound unbelievable to you but that’s what ‘Gama, The Great’ did at the age of 24, lifting a rock weighing 1,200 kg....."

So he lifted double the current world record!!!  Probably not of course.

By the way, the world record I mention above is held by  Eddie Hall from Stoke on Trent, here is the clip of him doing it, he had already set a new world record of 465kg that night, and decided to have a crack at 500kg, an additional 77 pounds (in old money).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y4o_BqC0A  ;

January 6, 2018 at 7:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

SaxonWolf
Member
Posts: 1874

By the way, sorry about the double post, above, this is happening to me a lot in the last few weeks, if I quote someone, rather than just reply.  It does not show my additional text, so I go back and post again and end up with two posts, one showing my response, and one that doesn't.  Just saying. 

January 6, 2018 at 7:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 2079

Hi Matey Dave


Your memory of Gama defeating the Butcher of Budapest 2-0 at Wembley is intriguing.


On the one hand, Kovacs was at the top of his game, and on the other Wembley was a Dale Martin venue, I believe the first time we have heard this Pakistani family of wrestlers linked to Joint Promotions.  They certainly wouldn'y have wanted to diminish Kovacs unless Gama was going to go on and appear regularly - which he plainly didn't.


Your memories of that bout would be interesting.


We are continually presented the most implausible information regarding Gama but cannot quite manage to pin down what was really going on, as I always say in my byline.


A suspicion is that they bought victories over greats even including Gordienko.  But on a DM bill????


Or maybe Gama really was as described!  Since Saxonwolf disproves the weightlifting part as tosh, we just have to treat all the rest as tosh, don't we?


A list of results for Gama would make interesting reading.

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Still trying to work out what was going on!

January 7, 2018 at 5:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2511

There seems to be a long line from the 1890s to the 1970s of top Western shooters, seeking a fresh challenge going to India/Pakistan and getting stuck against Gama, Bhollu and the other top champions of the style.  Srangler Lewis, Bert Assirati, Paul Vachon etc

January 7, 2018 at 6:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1899

They must have been a sell out.


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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 7, 2018 at 6:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 1123

Anglo Italian at January 7, 2018 at 5:07 AM

Hi Matey Dave


Your memory of Gama defeating the Butcher of Budapest 2-0 at Wembley is intriguing.


On the one hand, Kovacs was at the top of his game, and on the other Wembley was a Dale Martin venue, I believe the first time we have heard this Pakistani family of wrestlers linked to Joint Promotions.  They certainly wouldn'y have wanted to diminish Kovacs unless Gama was going to go on and appear regularly - which he plainly didn't.


Your memories of that bout would be interesting.


We are continually presented the most implausible information regarding Gama but cannot quite manage to pin down what was really going on, as I always say in my byline.


A suspicion is that they bought victories over greats even including Gordienko.  But on a DM bill????


Or maybe Gama really was as described!  Since Saxonwolf disproves the weightlifting part as tosh, we just have to treat all the rest as tosh, don't we?


A list of results for Gama would make interesting reading.

it was noted at the time that the great gama's wife, mrs great gama made a special mutton buna for josef before the match. this caused josef massive internal problems which caused him to lose the match.

josef tried to return the deed with an hungarian goulash at the return match but the great gama was a no show and found hidding in bradford.

in more ways then one there is a nasty smell drifting about

--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

January 7, 2018 at 8:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 2079

Funny ticket prices, Ron.  They smack of a three bob, two bob or shilling commission to someone.


Please explain "got stuck", David.  Do you mean came unstuck?


I think we can imagine all European wrestlers losing or drawing against the best in the sub-continent when out there.   Usually the reverse applied and the great internationals succumbed to Britain's best in the UK - from Jean Ferre down.


Gama seems different, invincible everywhere.


Here's a theory:  he went against script in extracting two subs from Kovacs and Dale Martin wouldn't use him again...?


Maybe Matey  will help us with memories of that bout.

--

Still trying to work out what was going on!

January 7, 2018 at 8:57 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2511

Well yes I meant came unstuck, although since Indian Wrestling was/is done in the soil (and was inadvertently reponsible for the invention of mud wrestling) there's an extra apropriacy in saying that they got stuck.

The smartest ones stayed around and learned the style and then came back to the West as an even more dangerous shooter, like Bert A did in the 50s.

January 7, 2018 at 10:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1899

Anglo Italian at January 7, 2018 at 8:57 AM

Funny ticket prices, Ron.  They smack of a three bob, two bob or shilling commission to someone.


Please explain "got stuck", David.  Do you mean came unstuck?


I think we can imagine all European wrestlers losing or drawing against the best in the sub-continent when out there.   Usually the reverse applied and the great internationals succumbed to Britain's best in the UK - from Jean Ferre down.


Gama seems different, invincible everywhere.


Here's a theory:  he went against script in extracting two subs from Kovacs and Dale Martin wouldn't use him again...?


Maybe Matey  will help us with memories of that bout.

Of course the prices were in Guineas. Guineas stuck about for many years after the £1 Sterling became the major currency unit.

I remember all the posh shops in Manchester quoting in Guineas.

Decimal finally saw off the Guinea.

But as you say Anglo , a Commission opportunity.

--

HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 7, 2018 at 10:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2511

David Mantell at January 7, 2018 at 10:10 AM

Well yes I meant came unstuck, although since Indian Wrestling was/is done in the soil (and was inadvertently reponsible for the invention of mud wrestling) there's an extra apropriacy in saying that they got stuck.

The smartest ones stayed around and learned the style and then came back to the West as an even more dangerous shooter, like Bert A did in the 50s.

Pahlewans vs Shooters - The Highlights

1892 - Karim Bux (aged 19) beat Tom Cannon

1900 - Kaloo beat Tom Cannon

1910 - Imam Bux beat Maurice Deriaz

1910 - Gama bt Stanislaus Zybysko  (also beat Ben F Roller this year but Roller was infamous for taking dives)

19?? - Gama beat Strangler Lewis (date uncertain but George Lenhinan is quoted as recalling Lewis telling him he hated the mud.)

1954 - Akram Singh (Bhollu's brother) beat Bert Assirati

1954  -Aslam Singh (another of Bhollu's brothers) beat Bert Assirati

1963 - Butcher Paul Vachon upsets Azam, yet another brother of Bhollu, after using an elbowsmash (ilegal in Indian wrestling) when on the brink of defeat

1963 - Azam squashes Paul Vachon in their return match

1967 - Aslam beats George Gordienko.  So does Akram Singh at some point

January 7, 2018 at 7:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2511

1910 - Gama bt Stanislaus Zybysko

Zybysko failed to show up for the rematch later that year and Gama was awarded a "John Bull Championship" by default.  18 years later in 1938 they fought again and Gama won in 42 seconds

January 7, 2018 at 7:46 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Anglo Italian
Moderator
Posts: 2079

Thanks David, that's great.


It's hard to distinguish all these family members without having seen any of them wrestle.  But Great Gama died in 1960 so Matey Dave cannot have seen him in 1961.


Sounds like Great Gama was the real deal internationally in the first half of the twentieth century.


To believe there was a whole bunch of family members who could defeat the likes of Assirati, Gordienko, Kovacs ... that would be astonishing.


The results in Pakistan and India interest me less, I can imagine the visitors doing the job, far from home with perhaps no press reports reaching home.


But these guys' matches in the UK remain of great interest, also, David, because there was no mud.  Tony Scarlo promoted them, I wonder what he could tell us.

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Still trying to work out what was going on!

January 8, 2018 at 1:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1899

Here is the Family in 1967 by name . Aslam is the one who is said to have beaten Gordienko.

One price only this time , the following month.


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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 8, 2018 at 4:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1899

Two days earlier thay were at it in Manchester.


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HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 8, 2018 at 5:18 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Ron Historyo
Member
Posts: 1899

Two days earlier thay were at it in Manchester.


--

HISTORYO

Time Detective and Multi Heritage Award Winner

January 8, 2018 at 5:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2511

The Bux lot were a separate family from Gama and his sons.

Indian Wrestling seems to be the one style that could trump even Lancashire Catch  Assirati did the smart thing in learning the style and bringing it back to Britain as part of his own style.  (I've always suspected that some time in the early 40s Assirati probably had an incident with Billy Riley similar to those had later on in the Snakepit by both Karl Istaz and Peter Thornley and that was what got him to stay in Wigan and study catch up to Ripper level.)

January 8, 2018 at 5:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 1123

that monday night at wembley when the great gama beat josef kovacs was a mess. the match was top of the bill, straight after the interval. the great gama entered the ring with his wife then josef turned up. the effects of thr mutton buna had not started to take effect so great buna's wife started to do an exotic dance in the ring, as the old girl was at least 50 stone there was a plenty of revolting flesh moving in all direction. many in the audience found it difficul to watch being of a sensitive nature and coming from neasden. eventually she was chased out of the ring by gladys the impaler. the match started and josef was clutching his stomache,,, and great gama slapped on a bear hug (a dangerous move considering). round 2 josef needed to be some where in a hurry. gama just grabbed his hand, josef submitted straight away and rushed to the gents toilet at the top of stairs. they had to cancell the wednesday tea dance because of being unable to make the gents toilet ready in time.

gladys the impaler then came back in the ring and kicked the crap out of great gama and he ended up at central middlesex hospital for 6 days.

frankie blake need 4 bottles of whisky to calm his nerves.

there was a high powered meeting at brixton which went no where.. and paul lincoln did not offer gama in bookings  

--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

January 8, 2018 at 6:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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