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Forum Home > Talk Wrestling > CAN NOT BE SERIOUS CAN HE

matey dave
Member
Posts: 979

discovered a strange little gem on BBC I-player. did people really believe this stuff back in 1990s

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0370w28/arena-masters-of-the-canvas

the real problem is that peter thornley can end up believing his own myth and not be able tell the differnence between fantasy and releatity. we all accept that wrestling had to have showmanship. the sort of myth being perpetrated here is dangerious as there are those who can take it seriously, like chopping off top of their index finger.

there were more then a handful of wrestlers who could have taken him out any time and majority of those in the opposite corner carried him to so he look good


--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

October 27, 2017 at 3:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

Now you're just being a wind up merchant ...

October 27, 2017 at 8:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

Good to see Masters Of The Canvas on the iPlayer tho.  There's an even better film, Images Of Nagasaki, that Naggers and Paul Yates did in 1998.

October 27, 2017 at 8:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul
Member
Posts: 21

Anyone know what happened to Paul Yates? He described himself as Kendo's 'creative collaborator.' I was not a great fan of the documentary nor, as matey describes Kendo 'beleiving his own myth.' He was not like this earlier in his career. He was happy to take off his mask for This is Your Life and was happy to speak in The Wild Bunch. 

October 28, 2017 at 3:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

The voice in The Wild Bunch was Brian Glover dubbed over Kendo.


At the time of the Big Daddy This Is Your Life in 1979, Kendo was still officially unmasked from the December 1977 ceremony.  He'd also let his hair grow out a bit since his last match as he and George were out of wrestling and in the music industry by 1979. Notice how, unlike George, Kendo doesn't laugh at anybody's jokes on the This IsYour Life.  He didn't remask until 1981 for the Battle Of The Kendos matches against Bill Clarke for Dixon - for which it made sense for him to wear the mask again. 


The storyline in Masters Of The Canvas of Paul Yates pursuing Kendo for an interview while being stymied by Lloyd Ryan was basically fiction.  In fact, as you'll know from Simon Garfield's book, Kendo had already met and spoken with Paul Yates before any film was shot.  Kendo reportedly said that he would be happy to do anything unless it was derogatory to wrestling (which was also Klondyke Kate's conditions for doing Raging Belles 3 years earlier.)


I wish Images Of Nagasaki was up online, it's an absolutely beautiful beguiling piece of film-making.


October 28, 2017 at 4:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul
Member
Posts: 21

I just watch Masters of Canvas again. Maybe its better than i gave it credit for. I am still interested about what happened to Yates. He was favoured over Lloyd Ryan for a period. Maybe Lloyd just had other projects. 

October 28, 2017 at 4:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

Is Yates the "other" Kendo (the masked butler) in Images Of Nagasaki?

October 28, 2017 at 6:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

Lloyd had a legit falling out with Kendo in 2002 (not to be confused with kayfabe fallings out in 1993 and 2007) when he was supposed to be managing Kendo's student Destiny but ended up accepting an offer from WAW to be the Knights' lead villain and manage a whole big stable of heels.  Things were patched up later,

October 28, 2017 at 6:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 979

David Mantell at October 27, 2017 at 8:54 PM

Now you're just being a wind up merchant ...

now don't you dare start being a bitchy old dear with me, i have a good supply of hollands steak and kidney puddings to throw at you

--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

October 28, 2017 at 7:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul
Member
Posts: 21

Once again, thanks for the info David. 

October 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 979

please note that what i put in the open post i do believe in. have seen a lot of nagasaki/thornley mumbo jumbo done a lot better, it is just show and very unbelievable


--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

October 28, 2017 at 2:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

djmask
Member
Posts: 36

Paul at October 28, 2017 at 4:52 AM

I just watch Masters of Canvas again. Maybe its better than i gave it credit for. I am still interested about what happened to Yates. He was favoured over Lloyd Ryan for a period. Maybe Lloyd just had other projects. 

Paul Yates has his own website www.paulyatesstudio.com . It doesn’t display well on my browser so difficult to see how current the updates are. But it does advertise a new Kendo documentary called ‘The Story of a Secret’’ which says a download will be available soon.

--

Wrestling Heritage Welterweight Belt Holder

October 29, 2017 at 6:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

Mateydave I've already analysed Kendo's considerable technical skills in other threads and on that FB thread and can't be bothered to be provoked into typing it all out again.  Go have a look at that other thread if you want to know why I say Kendo was a darn fine technical wrestler who didn't need to be carried.

October 30, 2017 at 3:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
Member
Posts: 1135
David I was a big Kendo fan and though he was a good in ring combatant he wasn't a great technical wrestler certainly not in the traditional sense but he was extremely effective
October 30, 2017 at 6:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

matey dave
Member
Posts: 979

master mantell, i don't know what your television showed you but his oppenents used to place themselves in position so he could do something spectuacular or tacky. he was only as good as his oppenent and promoters let him be.

as far as the mumbo jumbo act was, it was a sham... if he was genuine he would not have made a mockery of the rituals. the rituals were all centred on him... shucks. it always reminded me of an old music hall act...or ancient B picture horror film.

please note i am not one of your "The bitchy old dears!" and can stamp my feet with the best of them




--

blessed are the pacemakers

really do need my medication

more tea vicar and another jammy dodger

nurse, i need changing and my complan has gone cold

close friend of gladys the impaler

October 30, 2017 at 7:25 AM Flag Quote & Reply

frank
Member
Posts: 86

I don't believe Kendo Nagasaki ever believed his own hype but my personal theory is that the kendo persona provided Peter Thornley with a much needed different identity and an escape away from the difficulties he clearly faced in his life. (anyone who knows anything about the man will know he faced many tough times and had to come to terms with many difficult times in his path through life) I say this with the upmost respect to a truly great wrestler and no doubt a thoughly decent person outside the ring. Also I might add that I don't believe he ever needed to be carried and I don't think there were too many who could have beaten him.

October 30, 2017 at 7:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

> Also I might add that I don't believe he ever needed to be carried and I don't think there were too many who could have beaten him.

Here here, and I don't hink mateydave believes Kendo needed to be carried, I think he's just being a windup.

As far as what Thornley believes, mateydave, do you reckon that the Archbishop of Canterbury believes his particular "it" ?

October 30, 2017 at 8:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

powerlock at October 30, 2017 at 6:36 AM

David I was a big Kendo fan and though he was a good in ring combatant he wasn't a great technical wrestler certainly not in the traditional sense but he was extremely effective

Okay, for your sake, not for mateydave's, I'll repost the video and analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfX4rVcFyV4

Some good technical bits to look out for in that video:

2:55 Bronson has top wristlock, Kendo reverse-rolls (in a particular slow graceful manner too) and turns it into a high overhead wrist lever forcing Bronson to jump in order to spin out (although Bronson makes a good feet-first landing from this - most opponents land badly on their back in that situation).

3:10 Kendo quickly rolls out before Bronson can get his wrist lever up to the height Kendo had and so saves himself having to jump at all.

3:30-3:40 Kendo tries for several options for breaking the headlock including conversion to hammerlock and grapevine/wrist lever combo before succeeding with top wristlock

3:50-4:00 Kendo bends over top of Bronson anticipating powering down on top of bridge/ levering shoulders to mat with wristlock. Smoothly performed rolls in both directions for undoing wrist levers.

4:08 Neat waistlock takedown into folding press attempt. (Breaks cleanly when Bronson's foot touches rope!)

4:14 A Kendo trademark - the slow and majestic cross-buttock throw into side headlock on mat.

4:20 Adjusts position on headlock to put extra sepcial pressure on shoulderblades

4:28 Neat switch to cross press for pin attempt

5:00 Pulls Bronson's headlock down to mat and makes handstand escape. Bronson escapes counter but Kendo is up before Bronson.

5:23 Side headlock into snapmare into cross press all in one move!

5:28 Takes Bronson up and before he has chance to counter goes for another switfter this time cross buttock into cross press.

5:50-ish Reverses wristlock and converts it into double wristlock on mat in the guard position.

6:10-6:30 Rolling escape from headscissors and gets side headlock to finish.

6:50-6:54 Rolls to untwist hammerlock, changes direction mid-roll and catches Bronson in headscissors.

7:00 Turns on front, briefly converts to crooked headscissors.

**********************************

At 7:30 Kendo goes for waistlock on the mat but Bronson chops him in the eye. Kendo, who has done two clean breaks and shook Bronson's hand for his escape from the headscissors is angered by this. The bell goes but when Round 2 starts, Kendo is angry and so the bout moves into a dirty phase.

 

October 30, 2017 at 8:26 AM Flag Quote & Reply

powerlock
Member
Posts: 1135
You are taking one match I saw Kendo over 20 times live in the late 1960s/70s plus numerous televised matches I saw what I saw. A very effective wrestler who bested everyone he met but generally by power and eventually by bending the rules I didn't say he couldn't wrestle but he certainly did not show himself to be a skilled wrestling technician. Competent but that was all
October 30, 2017 at 9:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David Mantell
Member
Posts: 2220

I could also talk about the early rounds of matches against Pete Roberts in 1978, Rex Strong in 1978 (actually nearly the whole of that bout) Colin Joynson in 1976 and a bit of his 1978 bout.  Even the rather lopsided 1975 match against Jamaica Kid.   What you see in roiund 1 of that Lee Bronson fight is typical of round one (and often two) of Kendo's other fights from the 1970s.  


Unless he was on against a brute like Stax or Daddy or unless an opponent jump started the wild brawling fiirst like Pete Stewart or Johnny Kincaid or McManus/Logan, the usual pattern of a Kendo bout of this era was for a round or maybe two of serious technical wrestling - in which Kendo was generally shown to be a fine graceful technician with an eye for details -  which would usually end with Kendo getting into trouble (usually conceding a fall) and then switching to the wild dirty wrestling for another couple of rounds, getting a public warning or two in the process, before progressing to a final stage of big power moves, ultimately the Kamikaze Crash.  That's how it was by all accounts against Billy Robinson and Mike Marino - clean first half, dirty second half .  And in the clean first half, Kendo would often show himself to be a fine stylish technician.

October 30, 2017 at 9:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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